Just my 2c, but I think that competing with python in general is somewhat
delusional. I think the key point for expanding J use to have a "killer J
app". For example, an improved clone of or excellent plugin for VisiData (
https://www.visidata.org/) is my idea of a killer app. But someone here
may
have a better idea?
Cheers,
Raoul
Le lun. 31 janv. 2022 à 03:49, Ric Sherlock <tikk...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> Yes from a data structure point of view, inverted tables get you a lot of
> the way (note they're also available in the 'general/misc' addon - load
> 'general/misc/inverted' ) and I've used them to good effect in my
> 'data/struct' addon (https://github.com/tikkanz/data_struct).
> I agree that J's arrays are more general, flexible & powerful. But when
> you're dealing with a tabular data set there is an overhead to keeping
the
> fields in a table in sync that dataframes can help with. Perhaps it's
> something abstracting the structure so you don't have to deal so much
with
> the mechanics of manipulating it? At least for me :)
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 3:28 PM Elijah Stone <elro...@elronnd.net>
wrote:
>
> > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/Inverted_Table, perhaps?
> >
> > That said, I think a great strength of j is that data are _not_
> explicitly
> > tabular. The associations are defined in an ad-hoc manner as needed by
> > the programmer. This is also an essential difference between the array
> > paradigm and the relational paradigm (cf SQL): in the former, pointers
> > come with implicit context; in the latter, that context must be
explicit.
> >
> > -E
> >
> > P.S. regarding analysis/optimization: I would love to see it, but for
> some
> > reason everybody is scared of building a compiler because of the
parsing
> > problem.
> >
> > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, Ric Sherlock wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I've been thinking that a Dataframes equivalent in J would be
> > useful.
> > > Most things are already possible with J's arrays, but conceptually
> > > DataFrames are well understood by many now, and they make it easy to
> work
> > > with datasets as named fields.
> > > I've spent a reasonable amount of time working with Pandas, but have
> > > recently been using Polars (Rust backend with Python bindings) which
> > really
> > > shines for larger datasets. Performance (especially read/write) is
> > awesome,
> > > and the LazyFrames which optimise your query/analysis plan make a big
> > > difference too.
> > > I haven't taken enough time to explore it, but maybe Jd is the
starting
> > > point in this space for J?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 9:01 AM Michail L. Liarmakopoulos <
> > > m.l.liarm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello all,
> > >>
> > >> I find any parallels between python and J pretty interesting, being
a
> > >> person with some python experience and an interest of the
applications
> > of
> > >> both python and J in mathematical modelling, analytics,
computational
> > math
> > >> and perhaps computational physics too.
> > >>
> > >> If you'd like to bring some features from the python math/analytics
> > >> libraries/ecosystem in J, I'd suggest you to look at the features of
> > three
> > >> libraries:
> > >>
> > >> - numpy (I believe most features are already covered from the built
in
> > >> features of an array language such as J)
> > >>
> > >> - pandas ( a nice library for manipulating csv files within python
as
> > >> dataframe objects -- see the dataframes from the R language)
> > >>
> > >> - scipy (a collection of methods and functions ranging from solving
> > >> numerically: differential equations, evaluating definite integrals,
> > >> constrained and unconstrained optimization, and I believe statistics
> > too)
> > >>
> > >> There is also out there an amazing python library for symbolic
> > calculations
> > >> (like the ones you can do with Mathematica or WolframAlpha: symbolic
> > >> evaluation of definite and indefinite integrals, symbolic solutions
of
> > >> diff. equations, symbolic solutions of algebraic and Diophantine
> > equations
> > >> etc...). It's called sympy.
> > >>
> > >> But I'm not sure if you'd like J to include symbolic computations
too
> > or if
> > >> the aim of the language is to excel only in numerics, data
analytics,
> > >> stats, whatever can be quantified pretty much.
> > >>
> > >> My few cents as food for thought.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> Michail L. Liarmakopoulos, MSc
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2022, 20:39 R.E. Boss <r.e.b...@outlook.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I copied the first chapter of the book A Journey to Core Python
(in
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
>
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p1uIANh-LFniNNRqjDeeWWd4_-ddEZmz/view?usp=sharing
> > >> )
> > >> > and have the question: do we want that J is competitive with
Python?
> > >> >
> > >> > If the answer is yes, the next question is: what is the to do list
> to
> > be
> > >> > competitive and how long will it take?
> > >> >
> > >> > (And then the unavoidable question: WHY?)
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Personally I think we must aim on the niches in the market, as
there
> > are
> > >> > the mathematical oriented people, e.g. the broad scientific
> community.
> > >> >
> > >> > Then all people experienced in Excel or other spreadsheets or
> > calculation
> > >> > tools.
> > >> >
> > >> > Schools and universities. Financial and statistical oriented
people.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > What we should do, IMHO, is
> > >> >
> > >> > - to emphasize the strengths of J,
> > >> >
> > >> > - to improve (considerably) the error handling of J,
> > >> >
> > >> > - to admit the steep learning curve,
> > >> >
> > >> > - to facilitate the use of mnemonics instead of primitives (I
tried
> > this
> > >> > afternoon the primitives.ijs for half an hour, but was not capable
> of
> > use
> > >> > any mnemonic, not even with
> > >> > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Primitives_to_Mnemonics)
> > >> >
> > >> > - to decide which of the features, benefits or applications (of
> > Python)
> > >> we
> > >> > want J to have.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Just my 2 cents.
> > >> >
> > >> > R.E. Boss
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > For information about J forums see
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >> >
> > >>
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> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > >>
> > >
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> >
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