Ni orang udah kewalahan.
Saya tidak bicara tentang tulisan Puin.
Dan tulisan Puin dibawah ini tetap mengatakan ada perbedaan antara
fragmen al-Mushaf Yemen itu dengan al-Mushaf yang lain.
Dibalik itu ada beda antara al-Mushaf versi Kairo dan al-Mushaf versi
Magrib.
--- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> maksud lu yg dibilang puin:
> "The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni Qur'anic
> fragments do not differ from those found in museums and libraries
> elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not touch the Qur'an
> itself, but are rather differences in the way words are spelled. This
> phenomenon is well-known, even in the Qur'an published in Cairo in
> which is written:
> Ibrhim next to Ibrhm, Quran next to Qrn, Simahum next to Simhum
>
> adalah omong kosong ?
>
> menarik skl ..
>
> some quotes:
>
> Robert Hoyland :
> the historical memory of the Muslim community is more robust than some
> have claimed.
>
> John Burton:
> What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
>
> jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi keotentikan al
quran..
> bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu sudah bisa
> ngepost email di kampung petar ...
>
>
>
> --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "So much for the controversy over the Sana fragments. It was
> actualy
> > > > > Toby Lester who was the one that tried to inflate this whole
issue
> > > > > into something it wasn't, and Dr Puin himself has denied all the
> > > > > findings Lester ascribes to him, apart from the spelling
> > differences.
> > > > > The media and western scholars just lapped it up without
> conscience,
> > > > > like they always do."
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ini adalah sekedar omongan doang...
> > > >
> > >
> > > hehehe ... memang sulit menjadi orang jujur
> > >
> >
> > "hadingrh" nggak bisa bantgah bahwa omongandiatas cuma sekedar omong
> > kosong.
> >
> >
> > > > > John Burton:
> > > > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Biar ni orang kaing-kaing kayak anjing budug kena pentung,
kenyataan
> > > > akan tetap sama: Puin yang ahli huruf Arab kuno bilang bahwa
> tidak ada
> > > > bukti arkeologis yang menunjukkan bahwa al-Mushaf itu usmani...
> > > >
> > > > Nggak ada bukti.
> > > >
> > > > Yang ada cuma omongan yang tidak berbukti.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Robert Hoyland :
> > > the historical memory of the Muslim community is more robust
than some
> > > have claimed.
> > > John Burton:
> > > What we have today in our hands is the Mushaf of Muhammad.
> > >
> > > jadi tidak ada ruang lagi untuk memperebatkan lagi keotentikan al
> > quran..
> > > bahwa quran jaman onta sama dengan jaman dimana orang dungu
sudah bisa
> > > ngepost email di kampung petar ...
> > >
> >
> > Bukti al-Mushaf itu berisi wahyu Allah tidak ada.
> >
> > Bukti arkeoelogis bahwa al-Mushaf itu usmani juga tidak ada.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reposting
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In proletar@yahoogroups.com, "Jusfiq HADJAR" <tikungan@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Christoph Heger
> > > > > > Mar 13 1999, 10:00 am hide options
> > > > > > Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
> > > > > > From: Christoph.He...@ (Dr. Christoph Heger) - Find
> > > > > > messages by this author
> > > > > > Date: 1999/03/13
> > > > > > Subject: Gerd-R. Puin's position on the Yemeni Qur'ans
> > > > > > Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show
> original |
> > > > > > Report Abuse
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greetings to all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Toby Lester's article "What is the Koran?", published
> > in the
> > > > > > January 1999 issue of The Atlantic Monthly, a German
> > > scholar, Dr.
> > > > > > Gerd-R. Puin, played a prominent role, as he is
> researching on
> > > > > > the old Yemeni Qur'an manuscripts. Since he felt that his
> > > > > > position concerning Qur'an scholarship could be
> misunderstood
> > > > > > from this article (and especially its various erroneous
> Arabic
> > > > > > translations) he asked me to share with this list his
> > following
> > > > > > paper. He himself has no access to the Internet and its
> > mailing
> > > > > > lists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Christoph Heger
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________
> > > > > > _____________
> > > > > > ____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Gerd-R.
> > > > > > Puin
> > > > > > FR 7.2 Orientalistik
> > > > > > Universitaet des Saarlandes
> > > > > > D-66111 Saarbruecken
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > January, l999
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My position concerning my work on Yemeni Koran fragments:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been lucky - and still I am - to study many of the
> > oldest
> > > > > > Yemeni Koran manuscripts written in the most archaic
> "Hijazi"
> > > > > > style.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In these I found variants and peculiarities which are not
> > > > > > recorded in the traditional Arabic books on qira'at
(variant
> > > > > > readings), or in the books on rasm al- masahif
> (orthography of
> > > > > > the Koran[s]) nor in those on the ti'dad al-ayat (counting
> > > > > > [systems] of verses).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Hijazi Korans show more variants than those recorded
> > as the
> > > > > > Seven, Ten or Fourteen Readings, they show more
patterns of
> > > > > > "counting" - i.e. definitions of what is to be
> understood as a
> > > > > > verse - than the two dozen "schools" of counting would
> accept,
> > > > > > finally, the sequence of how the surahs were arranged in
> early
> > > > > > times, was even more variegated than Ibn Nadim's account
> > on the
> > > > > > sequence of surahs in the Korans of Ubayy or Ibn Mas'ud
> > > suggests!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I had not had access to Yamani Koran fragments
> preserved in
> > > > > > the Dar al-Makhtutat al-Yamaniyyah, San'a', I could have
> > > possibly
> > > > > > found similar variants and peculiarities in Hijazi
> > fragments of
> > > > > > the Koran kept outside the Yemen in many libraries or
> museums,
> > > > > > e.g. in France, Great Britain, Germany, Italy, or Kuwait.
> > A most
> > > > > > spectacular (complete??) Hijazi Koran can be admired
in the
> > > > > > Islamic Museum of Cairo, only a few meters from the
> > entrance, in
> > > > > > a special vitrine to the right of the main route; this
> > treasure
> > > > > > is in Egypt since 1300 years or so, but I know of no
> > > > > > investigation, of no publication on its peculiarities!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is, on the Muslims' side, no interest in textual
> > research
> > > > > > on the Koran since 900 years! Except from some western
> > semitists
> > > > > > who, from time to time, detect the etymology of one
Koranic
> > > > > > expression or another, most of the Arabists feel
> reluctant to
> > > > > > make up their minds on the genesis of the Koran. The
> > reason for
> > > > > > this kind of negligence is quite clear: Both the
Muslims and
> > > most
> > > > > > of the Arabists conceive any early deviation from the
> Koranic
> > > > > > scripture (as is represented by the Cairo print edition)
> for a
> > > > > > lapsus calami, a mere scribal error.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yet, if "scribal errors" happen to occur with the same
> words,
> > > > > > more often than twice, in the same manuscript or even in
> > two or
> > > > > > three, then it is common (philological) sense to look out
> > for a
> > > > > > rationale!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is my position: taking recurrent deviations from the
> > > > > > (printed) Koran for serious and not for insufficiencies
> of the
> > > > > > early scribes!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Koran, being the biggest Arabic text corpus extant
> > from late
> > > > > > antiquity, even in its actual printed edition bears
> witness of
> > > > > > all stages of orthographic reforms through which the text
> > passed
> > > > > > down to us. I feel confident that an insight into the
> > > development
> > > > > > of Koranic orthography will at least lead to a different
> > notion
> > > > > > of the text in some cases, and to a better understanding
> > in many
> > > > > > many more passages.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This will not, I'm afraid, bring about the breakthrough
> in the
> > > > > > understanding of the Koran, but it might contribute to
> > show that
> > > > > > the Koran has a history, not only in the sense of asbab
> > al-nuzul
> > > > > > ("causes for revelation"). The breakthrough might come
along
> > > with
> > > > > > the answer upon the question: What is the language of the
> > Koran?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Meanwhile, I stick to the manuscripts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Gerd-R. Puin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jusfiq Hadjar gelar Sutan Maradjo Lelo
> > > > > > ======================================
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Orang Islam tipikal kudu sadar bahwa al-Mushaf itu TIDAK
> berbukti
> > > > > > berisi wahyu Allah
> > > > > > dan hadits itu mustahil ada yang sahih
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- End forwarded message ---
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- End forwarded message ---
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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