I understand that the period for discussion has closed, but I'd like to 
offer my $0.02 anyway.

I find the incident response in 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1825780 both lacking in 
detail, and adversarial in nature. Telekom's response to this incident 
makes me weary of accepting them into the pool of CAs. 

> We determined that the validation of the de-domains could be trusted 
because the validation was carried out in a secure process directly with 
DENIC, i.e. the central registry for all de-domains. 

I'm worried that this shows a pattern of internal behavior that is at odds 
with public trust and being a public CA. And a set of behavior that ignores 
the accepted methods for domain validation.

Thanks,
Amir
On Wednesday, December 6, 2023 at 9:56:38 AM UTC-5 Chris Clements wrote:

> All,
>
> This is a reminder that the public discussion period on the inclusion 
> application of Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH will close on Wednesday, 
> December 13, 2023.
>
> Thank you,
> -Chris, on behalf of the CCADB Steering Committee
>
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 2:51 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Moudrick,
>>
>>  
>>
>> yes, these Root-CAs that are the subject of this Root Inclusion Request 
>> are fully managed by Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>>  
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Von:* Moudrick M. Dadashov <[email protected]> 
>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 3. November 2023 20:50
>> *An:* Kirch, Stefan <[email protected]>; [email protected]
>> *Cc:* FMB TrustCenter-Roots <[email protected]>
>> *Betreff:* RE: AW: Public Discussion of Deutsche Telekom Security CA 
>> Inclusion Request
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thank you, Stefan.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Do I understand correctly that, despite of the organisational structure 
>> and the relationship between the group members, this CA is fully managed by 
>> Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> M.D.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sent from my Galaxy
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: [email protected] 
>>
>> Date: 11/2/23 15:29 (GMT+02:00) 
>>
>> To: [email protected] 
>>
>> Cc: [email protected] 
>>
>> Subject: AW: Public Discussion of Deutsche Telekom Security CA Inclusion 
>> Request 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  
>>
>> For our answer we assume that "Deutsche Telekom AG" is meant rather than 
>> "Deutsche Telekom GmbH" (such a company does not exist). 
>>
>> The relationship is as follows:
>>
>> - Deutsche Telekom AG is the Group’s parent company
>>
>> - Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH is a 100% subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom 
>> AG
>>
>> - T-Systems International GmbH is a 100% subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom AG
>>
>>  
>>
>> With regard to the publicly trusted certificates, T-Systems International 
>> GmbH was the owner of the Root CA certificates as well as the operator of 
>> all Sub CAs of the Deutsche Telekom Group until 2020.
>>
>> With the establishment of Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH in 2020, 
>> ownership of the Root CAs as well as operation of the Sub CAs of the 
>> Deutsche Telekom Group were transferred internally from T-Systems 
>> International GmbH to Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH. 
>>
>> As the transfer also included all employees concerned, and operations 
>> continued at the same physical locations under the same conditions, the 
>> change mainly only took place on paper, with the name "T-Systems 
>> International GmbH" being replaced by "Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH" in 
>> the relevant documents and contracts.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Regarding the change of the Root ownership see also
>>
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.dev.security.policy/c/pOu_jWY0SVY/m/2uLyuK4TAwAJ
>>  
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>>  
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Von:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *Im Auftrag von *Moudrick M. 
>> Dadashov
>> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 1. November 2023 19:39
>> *An:* Ryan Dickson <[email protected]>; public <[email protected]>
>> *Betreff:* RE: Public Discussion of Deutsche Telekom Security CA 
>> Inclusion Request
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thank you. I’m trying to understand the organisational structure of the 
>> applicant.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Could someone please introduce us the relationship between Deutsche 
>> Telekom GmbH, Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH and T-Systems International 
>> GmbH?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Specifically I’m interested to understand their roles within the CA 
>> operations.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> M.D.
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Sent from my Galaxy
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: 'Ryan Dickson' via CCADB Public <[email protected]> 
>>
>> Date: 11/1/23 15:08 (GMT+02:00) 
>>
>> To: public <[email protected]> 
>>
>> Subject: Public Discussion of Deutsche Telekom Security CA Inclusion 
>> Request 
>>
>>  
>>
>> All,
>>
>>  
>>
>> This email commences a six-week public discussion of Deutsche Telekom 
>> Security’s request to include the following CA certificates as publicly 
>> trusted root certificates in one or more CCADB Root Store Member’s program. 
>> This discussion period is scheduled to close on *December 13, 2023*.
>>
>>  
>>
>> The purpose of this public discussion process is to promote openness and 
>> transparency. However, each Root Store makes its inclusion decisions 
>> independently, on its own timelines, and based on its own inclusion 
>> criteria. Successful completion of this public discussion process does not 
>> guarantee any favorable action by any root store.  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Anyone with concerns or questions is urged to raise them on this CCADB 
>> Public list by replying directly in this discussion thread. Likewise, a 
>> representative of the applicant must promptly respond directly in the 
>> discussion thread to all questions that are posted.
>>
>>  
>>
>> *CCADB Case Number: *00001269 
>> <https://ccadb.my.salesforce-sites.com/mozilla/PrintViewForCase?CaseNumber=00001269>
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Organization Background Information (listed in CCADB):*
>>
>> ·        *CA Owner Name:*Deutsche Telekom Security GmbH
>>
>> ·        *Website: *https://www.telesec.de/
>>
>> ·        *Address: *Untere Industriestrasse 20, Netphen, 57250 Germany
>>
>> ·        *Problem Reporting Mechanisms: *
>> https://www.telesec.de/en/kontakt-en
>>
>> ·        *Organization Type: *Private Corporation
>>
>> o   Deutsche Telekom Security is a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom AG
>>
>> ·        *Repository URL: 
>> https://www.telesec.de/en/service/downloads/pki-repository/ 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/en/service/downloads/pki-repository/>* 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Certificates Requesting Inclusion:*
>>
>> *1.*     *Telekom Security SMIME ECC Root 2021:*
>>
>> o   Certificate download links: (CA Repository 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/Telekom_Security_SMIME_ECC_Root_2021.cer>,
>>  
>> crt.sh 
>> <https://crt.sh/?sha256=3AE6DF7E0D637A65A8C81612EC6F9A142F85A16834C10280D88E707028518755>
>> )
>>
>> o   Use cases served/EKUs: 
>>
>> §  Secure Email (S/MIME) 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.4
>>
>> o   Test websites: N/A (S/MIME CA)
>>
>>  
>>
>> *2.*     *Telekom Security TLS ECC Root 2020: *
>>
>> o   Certificate download links: (CA Repository 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/Telekom_Security_TLS_ECC_Root_2020.cer>,
>>  
>> crt.sh 
>> <https://crt.sh/?sha256=578AF4DED0853F4E5998DB4AEAF9CBEA8D945F60B620A38D1A3C13B2BC7BA8E1>
>> )
>>
>> o   Use cases served/EKUs: 
>>
>> §  Server Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.1
>>
>> §  Client Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.2
>>
>> o   Test websites:
>>
>> §  Valid: https://active.tstlser20.test.telesec.de/ 
>>
>> §  Revoked:https://revoked.tstlser20.test.telesec.de/
>>
>> §  Expired: https://expired.tstlser20.test.telesec.de/ 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *3.*     *Telekom Security SMIME RSA Root 2023:*
>>
>> o   Certificate download links: (CA Repository 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/Telekom_Security_SMIME_RSA_Root_2023.cer>,
>>  
>> crt.sh 
>> <https://crt.sh/?sha256=78A656344F947E9CC0F734D9053D32F6742086B6B9CD2CAE4FAE1A2E4EFDE048>
>> )
>>
>> o   Use cases served/EKUs: 
>>
>> §  Secure Email (S/MIME) 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.4
>>
>> §  Client Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.2
>>
>> o   Test websites: N/A (S/MIME CA)
>>
>>  
>>
>> *4.*     *Telekom Security TLS RSA Root 2023:*
>>
>> o   Certificate download links: (CA Repository 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/Telekom_Security_TLS_RSA_Root_2023.cer>,
>>  
>> crt.sh 
>> <https://crt.sh/?sha256=EFC65CADBB59ADB6EFE84DA22311B35624B71B3B1EA0DA8B6655174EC8978646>
>> )
>>
>> o   Use cases served/EKUs: 
>>
>> §  Server Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.1
>>
>> §  Client Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.2
>>
>> o   Test websites:
>>
>> §  Valid: https://active.tstlsrr23.test.telesec.de/ 
>>
>> §  Revoked: https://revoked.tstlsrr23.test.telesec.de/ 
>>
>> §  Expired: https://expired.tstlsrr23.test.telesec.de/ 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Existing Publicly Trusted Root CAs from Deutsche Telekom Security:*
>>
>> *1.*     *T-TeleSec GlobalRoot Class 2:*
>>
>> o   Certificate download links: CA Repository 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/T-TeleSec_GlobalRoot_Class_2.cer>,
>>  
>> crt.sh 
>> <https://crt.sh/?q=91E2F5788D5810EBA7BA58737DE1548A8ECACD014598BC0B143E041B17052552>
>>
>> o   Use cases served/EKUs: 
>>
>> §  Server Authentication (TLS) 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.1
>>
>> §  Secure Email (S/MIME) 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.4
>>
>> §  Client Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.2
>>
>> o   Certificate Corpus: here 
>> <https://search.censys.io/search?resource=certificates&q=parsed.extensions.authority_key_id%3A+bf5920360079a0a0226b8cd5f261d2b82ccb824a>
>>  
>> (requires Censys account)
>>
>> o   Included in: Apple, Chrome, Microsoft, Mozilla
>>
>> *2.*               *T-TeleSec GlobalRoot Class 3:*
>>
>> o   Certificate download links: CA Repository 
>> <https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/T-TeleSec_GlobalRoot_Class_3.cer>,
>>  
>> crt.sh 
>> <https://crt.sh/?q=FD73DAD31C644FF1B43BEF0CCDDA96710B9CD9875ECA7E31707AF3E96D522BBD>
>>
>> o   Use cases served/EKUs:
>>
>> §  Server Authentication (TLS) 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.1;
>>
>> §  Client Authentication 1.3.6.1.5.5.7.3.2
>>
>> o   Certificate Corpus: here 
>> <https://search.censys.io/search?resource=certificates&q=parsed.extensions.authority_key_id%3A+b503f7763b61826a12aa1853eb032194bffececa>
>>  
>> (requires Censys account)
>>
>> o   Included in: Apple, Chrome, Microsoft, Mozilla
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Relevant Policy and Practices Documentation: *
>>
>> ·        Certificate Policy - v. 4.0 (Sept. 1, 2023), 
>> https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/Telekom-Security-CP-EN-V4.0.pdf
>>    
>>
>> ·        Certification Practices Statement - v. 6.0 (Sept. 1, 2023), 
>> https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/PKI-Repository/Telekom-Security-CPS-Public-EN-V6.0.pdf
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Most Recent Self-Assessment:*
>>
>> ·        
>> https://www.telesec.de/assets/downloads/2023-08-28_Telekom_Security_CCADB_Self_Assessment_Framework_v1.2.xlsx
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Audit Statements:*
>>
>> ·        Auditor: TÜV Informationstechnik GmbH
>>
>> ·        Audit Criteria: ETSI EN 319 411-1 V1.3.1 (2021-05); ETSI EN 319 
>> 411-2, V2.4.1 (2021-11)
>>
>> ·        Date of Audit Letter Issuance: June 21, 2023
>>
>> ·        For Period of Time: April 8, 2022, through April 7, 2023
>>
>> ·        Audit Statement(s):  
>>
>> o   
>> https://www.tuvit.de/fileadmin/Content/TUV_IT/zertifikate/en/AA2023062101_Telekom_Security_2023_V1.0.pdf
>>
>>  
>>
>> *Incident Summary (Bugzilla incidents from previous 24 months):*
>>
>> ·        Improper use of a domain validation method (Bugzilla Bug 
>> #1825780 <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1825780>)
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ryan, on behalf of the CCADB Steering Committee
>>
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