On 06.11.2015 00:08, Alexander Walters wrote: > They don't implement....anything. Guido implemented it.
Actually, it's Guido and the Python core dev team who implemented it and the cast of thousands who help by sending in patches. > but it is SUPREMELY unhelpful to list them as stand alone third party > implementations of python, > SINCE THEY ACTUALLY REQUIRE ANOTHER PYTHON TO RUN! You CANNOT run a Nuitka > module without libpython > being installed. 'standalone mode' simply links against an already existent > cpython. > > So while technically It MIGHT be considered another python (It isnt. Its a > CPython tool), it helps > no one to tell them its another implementation of the language. I'm not sure why you are getting all upset. There's nothing to be dogmatic about. All of the implementations I listed below under "Alternative CPython" use Python C code and the Python stdlib in one way or another - that's why they are listed as *alternative* CPython. Unlike the already listed repackaged Python versions, these implementations apply changes to CPython or extend it in various way (by e.g. adding a JIT compiler, adding additional syntax or compiling part of your Python program to Python C extensions). Now, if you want to continue the discussion, please provide constructive input. Otherwise, we can agree to disagree and stop the thread right here. > On 11/5/2015 04:49, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> On 05.11.2015 00:14, Alexander Walters wrote: >>> To be absolutely clear, Nuitka and Cython are not implementations of the >>> language... because you >>> cannot run anything with them. Can you really call it a language runtime >>> if you cant run anything >>> with them? they are tooling. It is unhelpful to new users to list this >>> tooling as an >>> implementation when they cant do anything with them alone. >> Both are compilers and they do allow you to create Python >> applications, just like gcc does for C (together with the >> libc runtime), so I don't really understand why you would >> not call them implementations of the language. They both >> take Python code on input :-) >> >> I guess putting them under a "Python Compiler" heading >> would satisfy your request. >> >>> On 11/4/2015 08:24, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>>> On 31.10.2015 22:23, Alexander Walters wrote: >>>>> Nuitka and Cython cant really be called alternate implementations of c >>>>> python, since they kind of >>>>> require c python to run. They are tooling at best. >>>> I'm not sure I follow. Cython runs all Python code, plus >>>> manages extensions for more easily compiling functions >>>> to C extensions. Nuitka tries to implement most of CPython. >>>> Both support use of Python C extensions. >>>> >>>> It's true that both need libpython - that's why I listed them >>>> as "Alternative CPython" and not as "Alternative Python" >>>> implementations :-) >>>> >>>>> On 10/29/2015 05:21, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>>>>> Some implementations which are not listed on the page: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternative CPython: >>>>>> >>>>>> HotPy - https://sites.google.com/site/makingcpythonfast/ >>>>>> Pyston - http://blog.pyston.org/ >>>>>> Cython - http://cython.org/ >>>>>> Nuitka - http://nuitka.net/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Python for embedded devices: >>>>>> >>>>>> MicroPython - https://micropython.org/ >>>>> This list is incomplete. >>>> Could you provide pointers to missing items ? >>>> >>>>>> Python in the browser: >>>>>> >>>>>> Brython - http://www.brython.info/ >>>>>> Skulpt - http://www.skulpt.org/ >>>>> as is this one (it does not even list the python in the cloud >>>>> implementation used on the front >>>>> page >>>>> of python.org) >>>> You mean PythonAnywhere ? >>>> >>>> I think there's a misunderstanding here. I just listed >>>> alternative implementations which aren't already mentioned >>>> on https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/. >>>> >>>>>> Python in the cloud: >>>>>> >>>>>> Trinket - https://trinket.io/python >>>>>> Wakari - https://wakari.io/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Python for education: >>>>>> >>>>>> Python Fiddle - http://pythonfiddle.com/ >>>>>> Geometry Zen - http://www.geometryzen.org/ >>>>>> Evaluzio - http://www.evaluzio.net/ >>>>>> >>>>>> More alternative CPython packagings: >>>>>> >>>>>> StaticPython - https://code.google.com/p/pts-mini-gpl/wiki/StaticPython >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The wiki page lists a few more: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonImplementations >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 29.10.2015 09:56, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>>>>>> On 29.10.2015 09:55, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>>>>>>> There's currently a ticket open for the alternative implementations >>>>>>>> page: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/842 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The page currently lists a few variants of Python implementations, >>>>>>>> but is not up to date with more recent developments such as >>>>>>>> Brython, Pyston, HotPy, etc. >>>>>>> Forgot the link to the page: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.python.org/download/alternatives/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think we should try to add all currently maintained variants >>>>>>>> to the page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would someone like to help with this ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We'd need ReST entries of the form: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * `PyPy <http://pypy.org/>`_ (A `fast <http://speed.pypy.org>`_ python >>>>>>>> implementation with a JIT compiler) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> for each variant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pydotorg-www mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Nov 06 2015) >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ 2015-10-23: Released mxODBC Connect 2.1.5 ... http://egenix.com/go85 ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs ::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/ _______________________________________________ pydotorg-www mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
