I agree that further documentation on design decisions would be helpful, though I empathize that processes need to be lightweight.
My two cents from the sidelines: The design decisions for Pyramid are very very good for long term extensability and project growth. However, they are, much like the ZCA itself, complicated and seemingly, dare I say, baroque, at first glance, and definitely not newbie friendly. IMHO, this is a case where what is good for beginners or learning a framework quickly is not what is optimal for experienced users who want to make sure they never 'hit the wall'. Because of this, I think design decision docs are even more important for Pyramid than for most frameworks. I don't think people are going to go to Pyramid because it's easy, I think they'll use it because it's good for the long haul. If we want to see a lot of adoption, we do need as much documentation as possible illustrating exactly why the architecture is an advantage to users. It took me a while before I realized how liberating getting everything out of the ZCA registry is, with the option of doing it by interfaces. It's just not obvious what hard problems are solved elegantly that way when you're first looking at it. Ditto for traversal. That said, the repoze.bfg docs are excellent. But yeah, some more 'why we did it this way' docs would be really cool. iain On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Mike Orr <sluggos...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Chris McDonough <chr...@plope.com> wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-11-25 at 19:16 -0800, BrianTheLion wrote: > >> All, > >> > >> At this juncture I humbly request that the Pylons project implement a > >> PEP-like system to support future framework development. While this > >> mailing list is an excellent forum for discussion, there are some > >> issues that require a more formal documentation and review process. > >> The PEP format does an excellent job of bringing great depth to > >> technical discussion, and allows for a high degree of transparency in > >> the road-mapping process. There are now many stakeholders in the > >> Pylons project that come from diverse backgrounds, and all would > >> benefit from moderated discussion and development under the PEP model > >> or something thereabouts. > >> > >> Thoughts? > > > > I do appreciate having a document at the end of a process documenting > > the decisions made. I particularly appreciate knowing why some ideas > > *weren't* implemented, if only as a way to deflect endless re-discussion > > later. > > > > But I personally have no desire to participate in or moderate a > > formalized PEP process right now. > > What Chris said. We need to document why we structured Pyramid as we > did, and why we didn't implement alternatives. But parts of Pyramid > are in rapid flux right now, and requiring PEPs before everything > would dramatically slow down the process and risk things not getting > done at all. Python did not start using PEPs until several years after > it was stable. The PEPs seem to have started in 2000 when they were > preparing for Python 2. Pyramid is not even out of alpha yet. One of > the reasons I use Pyramid is that Ben and Chris have incredibly wise > ideas about what structures will work for a wide variety of apps, so I > think let the BDFLs finish them and then we can give feedback. > > Pyramid already has extensive design docs in the FAQ, moreso than > other frameworks or most Python software. If there are specific parts > that are missing, we can address those. It needn't be in a PEP > structure, more of a FAQ, organized by subject. > > -- > Mike Orr <sluggos...@gmail.com> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pylons-discuss" group. > To post to this group, send email to pylons-disc...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<pylons-discuss%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-disc...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en.
