On 18/06/2010 19:52, l...@rmi.net wrote:
I wasn't calling Python 3 a turd. I was trying to show
the strangeness of the logic behind your rationalization.
And failing badly... (maybe I should have used "tar ball"?)
I didn't make myself clear. The expected disappointment I was referring
to was about the rate of adoption, not about the quality of the product.
I'm still baffled as to how a bug in the cgi module (along with the
acknowledged email problems) is such a big deal. Was it reported and
then languished in the bug tracker? That would be bad ion its own but if
it was only recently discovered that indicates that it probably isn't
such a big deal - either way it needs fixing, but using Python for
writing cgis hasn't been a big use case for a long time.
All the best,
Michael
What I'm suggesting is that extreme caution be exercised from
this point forward with all things 3.X-related. Whether you
wish to accept this or not, 3.X has a negative image to many.
This suggestion specifically includes not abandoning current
3.X email package users as a case in point. Ripping the rug
out from new 3.X users after they took the time to port seems
like it may be just enough to tip the scales altogether.
--Mark Lutz (http://learning-python.com, http://rmi.net/~lutz)
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Foord<fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk>
To: l...@rmi.net
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] email package status in 3.X
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:27:46 +0100
On 18/06/2010 18:22, l...@rmi.net wrote:
Python 3.0 was *declared* to be an experimental release, and by most
standards 3.1 (in terms of the core language and functionality) was a
solid release.
Any reasonable expectation about Python 3 adoption predicted that it
would take years, and would include going through a phase of difficulty
and disappointment...
Declaring something to be a turd doesn't change the fact that
it's a turd.
Right - but *you're* the one calling it a turd, which is not a helpful
approach or likely to achieve *anything* useful. I still have no idea
what you are actually suggesting.
I have a feeling that most people outside this
list would have much rather avoided the difficulty and
disappointment altogether.
Let's be honest here; 3.X was released to the community in part
as an extended beta.
Correction - 3.0 was an experimental release. That is not true of 3.1
and future releases.
All the best,
Michael
That's not a problem, unless you drop the
word "beta". And if you're still not buying that, imagine the sort
of response you'd get if you tried to sell software that billed
itself as "experimental", and promised a phase of "disappointment".
Why would you expect the Python world to react any differently?
Whilst I agree that there are plenty of issues to workon, and I don't
underestimate the difficulty of some of them, I think "half-baked" is
very much overblown. Whilst you have a lot to say about how much of a
problem this is I don't understand what you are suggesting be *done*?
I agree that 3.X isn't all bad, and I very much hope it succeeds. And
no, I have no answers; I'm just reporting the perception from downwind.
So here it is: The prevailing view is that 3.X developers hoisted things
on users that they did not fully work through themselves. Unicode is
prime among these: for all the talk here about how 2.X was broken in
this regard, the implications of the 3.X string solution remain to be
fully resolved in the 3.X standard library to this day. What is a
common Python user to make of that?
--Mark Lutz (http://learning-python.com, http://rmi.net/~lutz)
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