Appling my specific advice elsewhere is at most cute, in this case it was
offensive, and I doubt it was only to me.
The `'f{name!id}'` syntax is what *I* prefer, but *I* think that
subclassing typing.LiteralString is less disruptive.
'Esoteric' means something hidden, it is the exact opposite of 'we all know
about'
Em dom., 24 de set. de 2023 às 16:11, Dom Grigonis <dom.grigo...@gmail.com>
escreveu:
>
>
> On 24 Sep 2023, at 19:27, Tiago Illipronti Girardi <
> tiagoigira...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There definitely is a miscommunication:
>
> The 2 first options was me spitballing an alternative against the third.
>
> The not reinventing the wheel remark was me saying that the particular
> example that you gave *on that particular message* can already be done.
>
> I know, I just applied your advice in a different place. :)
>
> Also the case 2 f'{name!i}', I suggested as an extension of the current
> formatting paradigm, but is also the same as `f{name=}` except that you
> don't format the *value*,
> so I *imagine* (that word pulling more weight than I do at the gym, mind
> you) would be trivial to implement. It *needs* editor support regardless.
>
> So just to double check. You think f’{name!i}’ would be better than simply
> nameof() builtin?
>
> I have no problems with either b) or c), but I like c) better. As you said:
> print('In this context, variable', 'name', 'means an esoteric thing that
> we all know about’)
>
> Maybe it would be sensible not to couple ‘esoteric` thing with
> non-esoteric ones and find its place among other unique functionality
> providing things, such as id, type, exec, etc.
>
>
> While I would be very glad if my opinion is adopted by the community, do
> not substitute my opinion for the community's.
>
>
> Em dom., 24 de set. de 2023 às 12:29, Dom Grigonis <dom.grigo...@gmail.com>
> escreveu:
>
>> I think the separation is needed between the 2:
>>
>> a) identifier name
>> b) expression text
>>
>> I think there is a mix-up between these 2 which causes some confusion (at
>> least to me). Wanting both made me cling to f-strings as they currently do
>> b) in ‘postfix=' and a) can be extracted from it.
>>
>> —————
>>
>> I think having b) will be convenient to extract given/when/if/please
>> deferred evaluation is implemented:
>>
>> a = `expr`print(a.__expr_text__) *# **‘**expr'*
>>
>> —————
>>
>> So I think the focus here is a). I think this is what you are having in
>> mind, while I think about both - thus slight miscommunication.
>>
>> And for it I currently see 3 options:
>> 1. typing.ID['name']
>> I think this one is too verbose for what it is. Also requiring an import
>> 2. ‘{name!i}’
>> This one is sensible (and I think is better than my prefix=)
>> 3. nameof(name)
>> But I am leaning towards this one.
>> Pros:
>> * it is not coupled with either string formatting or typing.
>> * C# guys most likely gave some thought into it so the resulting output
>> can potentially be modelled after it. That is: to either return identifier
>> name, or the name of the attribute.
>> * * **Also, this would be in line with your suggestion of not
>> reinventing the wheel.*
>> * Finally, there would be no extra editor work.
>> Cons:
>> * Extra name in global namespace
>> * Any thoughts why this isn’t a good option?
>>
>> Regards,
>> DG
>>
>> On 24 Sep 2023, at 17:44, Tiago Illipronti Girardi <
>> tiagoigira...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> or
>>
>>
>> print('{a=} and b={a}')
>>
>>
>> This already exists. Kindly stop reinventing the wheel.
>>
>> the thing that does not exist now is:
>>
>> print('In this context, variable', 'name', 'means an esoteric thing that we
>> all know about')
>>
>>
>> where `'name'` can be substituted easily (the 'nameof' case) but it could
>> be, as an example:
>>
>> print('In this context, variable {name!i} means an esoteric thing that we
>> all know about')
>>
>>
>> (my favorite, but interpreter maintenance costs trumps my preferences)
>> or could be done as:
>>
>> print('In this context, variable', typing.ID['name'], 'means an esoteric
>> thing that we all know about')
>>
>>
>> which wouldn't change the interpreter at all, (but would change the
>> stdlib).
>>
>> Either way, the 'nameof'-support needs editor support, because it is an
>> *editing* use case, the interpreter just doesn't care.
>> (It could, but it *can't* do anything without the *editor* responding to
>> it)
>>
>> Em dom., 24 de set. de 2023 às 11:13, Dom Grigonis <
>> dom.grigo...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Sep 2023, at 16:42, Stephen J. Turnbull <
>>> turnbull.stephen...@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dom Grigonis writes:
>>>
>>> But it's far from concise
>>>
>>> What could be more concise?
>>>
>>>
>>> A notation where you don't have to repeat a possibly long expression.
>>> For example, numerical positions like regular expressions. Consider
>>> this possible notation:
>>>
>>> f'There are {count} expression{pluralize(count)} denoted by {=0}.'
>>>
>>> Otherwise it isn't great, but it's definitely concise. In the
>>> simplest case you could omit the position:
>>>
>>> f'{=} is {count} at this point in the program.'
>>>
>>> Hmmm...
>>>
>>> and violates DRY -- it doesn't solve the problem of the first
>>> draft typo.
>>>
>>>
>>> And how is “postfix =“ different?
>>>
>>>
>>> You *can't* use different identifiers for the name and value in
>>> "postfix =": the same text is used twice, once as a string and one as
>>> an identifier.
>>>
>>> I see what you mean, but this property is arguably intrinsic to what it
>>> is. And is part of f-strings vs explicit formatting property too:
>>>
>>> variable = 1print(f'{variable=} and b={variable}')# VS
>>> msg = 'variable={v} and b={v}'print(msg.format(v=variable))
>>>
>>> Especially, where msg can be pre-stored and reused. Then maybe not
>>> making it f-string only is a better idea. So that one can do:
>>>
>>> msg = '{a!i}={a} and b={a}'print(msg.format(a=variable))
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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