2010/1/22 Amit Aronovitch <[email protected]>
> How one expects things to behave strongly depends on who that "one" is. > People with different expectations or different knowledge might have hard > time understanding (not to mention explaining) the other one's POV, so *any* > implementation could be considered "a bad idea". > > The meaning (purpose) of the two lists can be understood as: > (1) Python-IL: all things python in Israel, (maybe better named > python-all-IL), vs PyWeb-IL: web related python stuff in Israel. > (2) Python-IL: all non-web-related python stuff in Israel (maybe better > named python-nonweb-IL) vs PyWeb-IL: as before. > > Or it can be understood as "Python discussion in Israel" and "Specialized discussion about python use for the web in Israel". I know there might be some crossover, but that's what cross-posting is for (if done in moderation!) > If you think the lists are described by option (2), no doubt your reasoning > was right, but note that to think that you must know in advance that > Pyweb-IL exists, and even then this does not seem to be the most > straightforward interpretation. > > I definitely think an announcement about another list is appropriate. > If you think option (1) describes things best, then it makes sense that a > person who subscribes to Python-IL expects to get all python contents, > including web stuff. He *does not need* to subscribe to Pyweb as well (and > might not even know it exists). If he does subscribe to both, he might > expect some duplicate contents. This is the most simple and direct > expectation based on the interpretation of the group's name. Whether this is > implemented by forwarding the other list or somehow convincing the denizens > of Pyweb to cross-post is a matter of implementation. > Now, experienced net-denizens such as the posters in this thread typically > know about the dynamics of competing mailing lists, so they settle into a > practice of searching for all groups containing python and subscribing to > all in order to avoid missing contents. But in this case (given that they > also typically know about cross-posting) they should also expect duplicate > contents. > > And now we come to the question of practicality. So far, my suspicion seems > correct - NOBODY seems to want to limit themselves to non-web-related python > stuff (though some wish to reserve the option for that in the future). Some > other people (I guess) subscribe to all kinds of web-related groups, but > don't care much about python in general. How do we provide the most > usefulness to people interpreting the purpose of the groups correctly and > least damage to those who do not? > Since it is harder to convince people (some of which might not be aware > that python-IL exists) to cross-post than do a mass forward, since I > consider loss of information worse than *expected* and easily removable > duplication of messages (I am still having a hard time understanding why > some people subscribed to both groups did not expect to get duplicate > messages - see above), I thought that the current arrangement is the most > practical. > > Now, all this is just trying to explain and to understand. I am not trying > to convince anyone this way or the other (in fact, my personal interest is > to unsubscribe python-IL from pyweb, so I'll get a little less spam in the > moderator queue), just trying to clear up misunderstandings. > I've been on-line since 1993. Perhaps due to that I expect mailing lists to behave in a certain way and expect a certain etiquette regarding exploders and cross-posting. Yes I could write filters, but it definitely behaves in a way I personally do not EXPECT a list to behave. The vote count reflects my position, even if you take the absentees and enumerate them as 'keep subscribed'. -- Arik
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