On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 11:11 +1000, Lie Ryan wrote: > On 06/07/10 10:48, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > > On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 17:03 -0700, AD. wrote: > >> On Jun 7, 10:55 am, ant <shi...@uklinux.net> wrote: > >>> My concern is simple: I think that Python is doomed to remain a minor > >>> language unless we crack this problem. > >> I'm curious why you think fragmented GUI choices is a particular > >> problem for Python compared to other languages? Or why this is the > >> main issue holding Python back? > > The base assumption is: there is some core issue holding Python back? > > Nah. > Any thought about drag-and-drop GUI builder in IDLE?
Sure; someone should write one, or several. That isn't a toolkit issue. But then I don't know any of the local Python devs who use IDLE; the IDE landscape for Python is very fragmented, which disincentives that happening. > >> .NET/C# has had preferred GUI APIs come and go and isn't exactly what > >> I'd call crossplatform, > > Well, if you use Gtk# for your GUI it is probably one of the [if not > > "the"] most cross-platform development solution for complex fat-clients. > >> Looking at the state of other languages and their GUI toolkit > >> landscape, someone might even come to the conclusion that having one > >> true GUI toolkit is potentially a bad thing for a language. > > +1 In the end the relationships with GUI toolkits is far more about > > tool-chain and documentation then it is about language. If there was an > > awesome IDE that allowed RAD [of real complex applications] in toolkit X > > then people will use toolkit X. [Monodevelop and it's awesome Gtk# > > support for Mono/.NET is a good example; the tool makes the toolkit > > east to use - people go with the toolkit]. > The problem with the current GUI toolkits is their API is designed to be > cross-language (i18n). I'd say, keep the current GUI toolkits, make > their API easier to use (l10n). Which is 'just' an implementation detail. Comparing early Gtk# implementations with current ones - they did a significant amount of work to make Gtk# more .NET-ish, without rewriting Gtk. [And PyGtk is hardly neglected; significant features of GNOME 3 such as Zeitgeist are Python apps <http://live.gnome.org/Zeitgeist>]. I haven't had a chance to play with it but <http://python-forum.org/pythonforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9415> looks encouraging. But that is still far from the depth of functionality available in .NET and Java toolchains [which, again, has nothing to do with the specific widget set]. -- Adam Tauno Williams <awill...@whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com> OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
