On 1 July 2013 19:29, rusi <rustompm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Monday, July 1, 2013 10:26:21 PM UTC+5:30, Joshua Landau wrote: >> So yes, Antoon Pardon and Nikos, please stop. You are not representing >> the list. > > This 'and' is type-wrong.
I don't follow. >> I haven't followed any of the other arguments, true, but you >> two in particular are causing a lot of trouble for the rest of us. > > This thread only makes sense in the context of the last year of threads > culminating in the last month of bullshit that this list is drowning under. Yes, but I followed that. What I haven't followed are the probably-100-post-long "wars" that are happening in other threads between specific individuals who I can't be bothered to look up. So I don't know who else has been slandering off of this thread. >> It is not hard to avoid making your disagreements public. > > The reverse is also true in general and more appropriate in this case. > Sometimes the consequences of not speaking up are more tragic than speaking > too much, see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...#The_text That's hardly relevant. Nikos isn't "targeting" any minority. > Yeah sure, abusive posts, derogatory remarks, snide baiting etc is a problem. > > However when you take Alex sarcastic comment > "rename comp.lang.python to comp.support.superhost" > and see the seriousness behind the sarcasm, you would find a considerably > bigger problem -- the python list is stopping to be a python list. No it hasn't. Nikos is a fraction of this list, and over the past while has shrunk far below his peak. The people spewing insults (including Nikos, but he's said he'll stop and I respect him for that) are a much more voluminous sect of this list and a much bigger problem. > In short if you agree and expand on only the first part of my request > >> - No discussions about Nikos specifically or trolling/flaming in general I don't care whether people "discuss" Nikos. I care whether they insult people, flame people and whether they act derogatorily. That is uncalled for. Python-List is known for going off-topic, *but we should not be known for insults*. This is especially true as only two people have been insulting on this thread -- none of the others have endorsed it. If [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...#The_text] applies to any situation here, it's your lack of appreciation of the fact that these insults are harming people. > without the second > >> - No answers to anything he asks > > then we are not in agreement. And that is why I disagreed with you. I feel that your post implied either everyone "STFU" or I'm OK with insults. It's not that. It's "STFU", or don't, but insults are not OK. Ever. > Let me end with 2 points: > 1. If this discussion is to go beyond name-calling and over-specific, > under-effective bandaids to getting a real grasp of the problem and hopefully > a real solution, it would be good if people could familiarize themselves with > the paradigm called "tragedy of the commons" > http://www.systems-thinking.org/arch/arch.htm#archtc That doesn't apply here. > 2. Steven's "I am kill-filing you for a month" will have a salutary effect on > all only if we all do it. Good for him. I prefer not to kill-fire - I don't even know how yet - because it's easy enough to ignore posts. But that's fine - it's his choice and it's not a bad one. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list