On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 9:06 PM Mike Dewhirst via Python-list < python-list@python.org> wrote:
> On 14/08/2024 12:54 am, Michael Torrie via Python-list wrote: > > On 8/13/24 3:24 AM, Robin Becker via Python-list wrote: > >> I am clearly one of the troglodytes referred to in recent discussions > around the PSF. I've been around in python land > >> for far too long, my eyesight fails etc etc. > >> > >> I feel strongly that a miscarriage of justice has been made in the > 3-month banning of a famous python developer from > >> some areas of discourse. > >> > >> I have had my share of disagreements with others in the past and have > been sometimes violent or disrespectful in emails. > >> > >> I might have been in the kill list of some, but never banned from any > mailing lists. > >> > >> Honest dialogue is much better than imposed silence. > >> > >> -- grumblingly-yrs -- > >> Robin Becker > > Agreed. Here's a good summary of the issue: > > https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestration-of-tim > > > > The PSF has really screwed this up. Really embarrassing, frankly. And > > sad. > > I read Chris McDonough's defence of Tim Peters and he has convinced me. > Not because of everything he said but because I have experience of > committees. And other things. > > The problem is generational. > > Later generations can see the faults of earlier generations in brilliant > hindsight. I certainly did. > > In my case, those earlier generations caused depressions and world wars. > That was pretty bad wasn't it? > > Can I blame my ancestors for that? My great-grandparents were born in > the second half of the 1800s; my grandparents in the late 1800s. They > were undoubtedly responsible for WW1 and the great depression wouldn't > you say? > > So my parents who grew up after WW1 and both fought in WW2 were forced > to give the best years of their lives to the worst of times. Not their > fault. In fact they were heroic to do all that and have me and my > siblings starting in their mid-twenties. > > Here's the rub: they had serious faults and I could see them clearly - > when I was in my twenties and having children of my own. > > I'll be 80 next year and I have a clearer perspective now. > > I now understand why the oldest known culture (60k+ years) survived > intact for so long including the last few thousand years of trading > between Australia and Asia and more recent centuries with Europe. It > wasn't entirely due to isolation. In fact there were hundreds of > separate nations and languages in Australia so no-one was all that > isolated. They had traders and diplomats and warriors just like the rest > of humanity. > > The difference isn't with them it is with us. We have lost what keeps > them together. They respect their elders. We don't. They had to because > their survival depended on lore and knowledge which was passed orally > across generations. > > The real difference is the invention of the printing press and its > successors right down to television and the internet. > > We no longer rely on our elders for knowledge. > > That has eroded respect. > > With each generation the erosion gets worse. When I was a child, my > parents gave me a bike and a set of encyclopedia. They tested me on my > knowledge and taught me other stuff too, which I can't remember now but > I could look it up. > > Our children got bikes and encyclopedia too but they were growing up > after Germaine Greer published "The Female Eunuch". They are Gen Xers. > That means they became totally aware of female emancipation and the > comcomitant male emancipation and other isms. > > Knowledge is a small part of life. You have heard "it's not what you > know, it's who you know". > > Inherited wealth solves all problems for the wealthy because that > inheritance includes every "who" who matters. For the rest of us getting > on with people is what really matters. Without the right "who", survival > is at risk. All the knowledge in the world is at our fingertips today > and still our survival needs to be curated. > > So PSF Board members survival depends not on knowledge nor on having > policies and codes of conduct but on the right "who". > > The survival of the Board and perhaps even the P language itself depends > on elders. > > Elders have something which was well respected by earlier generations. > That is lore which is steeped in experience. Leadership can be taught > and learned. Experience has to be experienced. Young people almost by > definition, don't have it. "Young" is obviously a relative term given > one's perspective. > > Experience and respect for experience kept the oldest known culture on > the planet functioning for a very long time. Even the advent of the web > has not detracted from that respect. > > The PSF Board should reflect on their lack of respect for experience and > try to retrieve any damage that lack of respect may have done to the > very thing they were elected to look after. > > I'm old and I respect Tim's age and would not expect him to suffer the > load of becoming BDFL but by golly that would be my preference. > > Well - - - I'm not 80 but I can concur with all of the historical stuff written here. Would also agree with the conclusions drawn re: board action. What short sighted overly politically correct thinking - - - the end result of these kind of brouhahas is hugely negative for any organization. Regards -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
