Kay Schluehr wrote: > John Coleman wrote: > > Ron Stephens wrote: > > > Actually, Python has the distinction of being both a great tool > > > language *and* a great Zen language. That's what makes Python so cool > > > ;-))) > > > > > > Ron Stephens > > > Python411 > > > www.awaretek.com/python/index.html > > > > This would explain why the question is so hard to answer. It is a > > slam-dunk that Lisp is Zen and VBA is tool - but python really is a bit > > hard to classify. This is somewhat similar to the way that python seems > > to straddle the gap between imperative and functional languages. It has > > something from each worlds (whether it has the *best* from each world > > is a separate question) > > > > -John Coleman > > There is something that worries me about Lisp. If you are interested in > the history of Lisp and some non-technical aspects of its culture I can > recommend the writings of Richard Gabriel, who was one of the leaders > of the CL standardisation commitee and founder of the Lisp company > Lucid in the mid 80s that gone down a few years later. As it turned out > that time Lisp was not capable to survive in what we call today a > "heterogenous environment". It was strongly too self-centered. So I > would actually invert you categories and say that a good tool achieves > to have a non-dual nature instead of a strong I. With Lisp you might be > a god but according to the Zen philosophy a god is a subordinated > character that preserves the illusion of self-identity. A fine thing > about a tool in this context is that you have to define its identity by > a relationship to something that it is not. > > I have at times the impression that many people who talk about Zen > philosophy confuse it with some home brewn mixture of platonism with > its transgressive move towards the true reality, a stoic hedonism of > contemplation and the taoistic being-in-doing. Zen on the other side is > more radical: if you erase yourself there is no-one "who" is in the > flow but chances are that you and the computer over there are the same > thing. > > Kay
Too right. If programming language was Zen there would be no keyboards, just a telepathic interface. But I have to admit I enjoy a solidly platonic relationship with Python. I prefer to write things in the most beautiful way rather than in the most efficient. Its cost me a couple jobs, but the integrity of the product always remains intact. The Eternal Squire -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list