Hello all, Related to topic, I’ve been researching interest in setting up a regional cooperative for local governments around GeoMOOSE (at first) users in my area (upper Midwest, lot’s of GeoMOOSE up here)
If I can get an informal group together and get something started as a common roadmap for development, I think that will go far in reaching a lot of the goals that have been suggested here so far. Having some sort of organization that is further reaching than our regional area might be a bit more of a stretch in the near term though, but it’s all likely a good thing in the long run. bobb > On Jun 12, 2015, at 9:31 AM, James Keener <j...@jimkeener.com> wrote: > >> They feel as thought they are adhering to a standard - of course a >> standard put forth by a software company. > > A proprietary software company with whom they have no reason to believe > their data from now will be accessible in 10 years, let along 50. > >> Yes it's free but it's very professional. > > A million times, yes. This is a message that's hard to get across. > >> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go >> next with this? > > Does the OSGeo group have a local governments sub-group? (I didn't see > one, I wonder if there would be interest in creating one. If not, I > still think we should create one, and I would be willing to fund the > domain, site and forum hosting, mailing lists, &c at first.) It seems > to be a tech-focused organization and I wonder if they would they would > be interested in forming a group dedicated to ... ? > > What should we be dedicated to? (Also, I'm using F/OSS as a catch all, I > realize we might want to trim it to OSG or something else). > > Main Goal: To increase the usage of F/OSS software by government. > > I say that with the subtext of "legitimizing" the use of F/OSS by > governments, i.e. show them others who are using it, show them standards > they can point to and justify themselves by, and show them that being > beholden to software corps isn't the only way to get support. > > I would suggest the following actions to supporting that goal: > > * Compiling standards that Governments can (be) point to (endorsing the > (OGC standards)[http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards]?) > * Compiling software that Governments can (be) pointed to (QGIS, > PostGIS, GDAL, &c) > * Compiling case-studies done with F/OSS > * Compiling white papers around using F/OSS > * Improve the documentation and tutorials of recommended software > * Work towards creating standards as needs arise > * Provide a starting point for Governments to network with > * Other governments using F/OSS > * Vendors of F/OSS-based services (I'd be OK if this was left out, > though it could be useful depending on our exact goals) > > Thoughts? > Jim Keener > > On 06/12/2015 09:11 AM, Randal Hale wrote: >> In the states it's all ESRI all day. >> >> A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's >> rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we >> will do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for >> many because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no >> thought - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are >> adhering to a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software >> company. >> >> My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use >> ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So >> rare I opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my >> clients are versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get >> "well that free stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over >> clients as They are getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the >> word is spreading. Yes it's free but it's very professional. >> >> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go >> next with this? >> >> Randy >> >> >> >> On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote: >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> Thank you for raising this important discussion. >>> >>> In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open >>> Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and >>> work in Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses >>> ESRI products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also >>> increasingly use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes >>> exclusively and sometimes side by side with proprietary software. >>> >>> I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing >>> number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side >>> by side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more >>> applications to FOSSGIS. >>> >>> Some examples in Switzerland: >>> >>> * The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software >>> (Postgis, OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is >>> very popular - production of the data is still done exclusively in ESRI >>> * 2 provinces in Switzerland run exclusively in FOSSGIS, about 7 and 8 >>> additional provinces introduced FOSSGIS side by side with commercial >>> products >>> * several cities and water/gaz providers are currently migrating to >>> FOSSGIS to document utility networks >>> * The austrian province "Vorarlberg" introduced several hundred >>> installations of QGIS as the main GIS in their administration >>> * several Scandinavian countries/provinces/cities are already using >>> FOSSGIS on both Desktop GIS and web mapping >>> >>> The list would be much longer - but things are moving slowly and >>> steadily to more FOSSGIS usage in Europe - at least I can tell >>> >>> There are two other interesting points: >>> >>> * in my opinion - it is not so much about money - but about different >>> values: the ability to more easily influence the direction of the >>> software, support of open standards, integration with other FOSS >>> software, etc. >>> * as an employee of a local government it is so much more interesting >>> being able to actively contribute to FOSS software rather than just >>> using software "as is". >>> >>> As you can see above - it is more the "richer" countries that are >>> moving towards Open Source and fewer "poorer" countries. This >>> indicates that the factor "cost" is less important than people think. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> >>> On 11.06.2015 22:28, Steve G wrote: >>>> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this >>>> discussion, but >>>> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others >>>> think. I >>>> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk >>>> about >>>> GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS >>>> platform. And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even >>>> more >>>> pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other >>>> related >>>> systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified >>>> business partners with ESRI. Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" >>>> track >>>> that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local >>>> government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local >>>> Government >>>> Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc. This extends a COTS >>>> approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a >>>> fairly >>>> complete GIS. In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small >>>> cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey >>>> approach is >>>> very appealing. For city bureaucrats thinking about >>>> implementing/extending >>>> GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this? >>>> Awesome...here's my money. >>>> >>>> HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks. Long-term license/use costs, >>>> vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix >>>> something....well, the list goes on (just read any blog post >>>> supporting open >>>> source/FOSS). >>>> >>>> So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing >>>> replacement/alternative for >>>> the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey >>>> approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local >>>> governments? I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others) >>>> trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local >>>> government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might >>>> seem like >>>> a lot of work to develop and maintain. >>>> >>>> I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post >>>> somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin. >>>> >>>> Steve G. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: >>>> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html >>>> >>>> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Qgis-user mailing list >>>> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Qgis-user mailing list >>> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user >> > > _______________________________________________ > Qgis-user mailing list > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user _______________________________________________ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user