Hi Denis,
thanks for answering
Am 26.11.2018 um 14:00 schrieb Denis Rouzaud:
Hi all,
Thanks a lot for summarising this all.
Basically I was reviewing all related issues to see which need to be
fixed, thus I really played a lot with the new node tool.
All these issues seem very valid to me, but the logic of bringing back the
selection of the feature has no valid reasoning to me.
I see a few things that could be improved to solve these issues:
1) choosing/adding vertex in a dense area:
We could introduce a feature-locking: whenever you have highlighted a
feature, pressing ALT would lock the feature. That would allow you to
safely add/choose/move a vertex on that feature.
Would do for any feature that highlights in the first place. Problem is
that you might have to move around the mouse pointer a lot until your
desired feature highlights and features totally overlapped by others
might still be more cumbersome. That's where the proposal to switch
through the features with right clicks brings improvement. Locking the
feature with ALT would be the same as my choose-proposal but less
intuitive than a left click.
2) Highlighting:
The fact that the highlighting is disturbing is a bit subjective to me.
Is it too aggressive? If so, default colour and width could be tuned a bit
I guess.
This was a point raised in one issue and I agree it is subjective. Maybe
it is related to the above, that you have to move around the mouse
pointer a lot and all the times some feature highlights?
3) Adding vertex should stay where it was pressed:
The solution you propose in 13 seems really good to me (double click adding
leaves new vertex in place).
4) vertices not alway highlighted:
solution proposed in 1) would also tackle this one I think.
5) accidental add/move
I think that this will only be achieved by training. It is indeed a bit
less intuitive than previous behaviour.
IMHO the more intuitive a software behaves the better
But I don't see any way to change this.
Could you explain why?
A right click very cancels very quickly anything anyway.
6) consistency
a) moving vertices
I don't see the inconsistency here. You can select a vertex and move it
later, similarly to moving several. Moving a single by simply clicking on
is just a shortcut to me.
agreed, I could live with that
b) deleting segments vs vertices
I think that this also comes with training. The reasoning is that you can
only select vertices and not segments, and you can delete only what has
been selected.
If you can only select vertices then the two vertices should be selected
when the segment has been clicked on.
You are never selecting a segment (it never comes blue),
Current behaviour is that you "select" the segment and are ready to move it.
clicking on it is only a shortcut to move it. Is there a need to be able to
delete segments faster?
We do not know what users do. I personally neither need a way to delete
two-vertex segments nor to move them faster than the normal way. But the
current behaviour is kinda "nervous" and if you click in the wrong
moment you have to abolish your move with a right click and try again.
I think the vertex tool became very powerful at the cost of a steeper
learning curve. I would really be in favour of trying these ideas before
adding a click in all operations with the tool.
regards
Bernhard
Cheers,
Denis
Le lun. 26 nov. 2018 à 07:33, Bernhard Ströbl <bernhard.stro...@jena.de> a
écrit :
Dear all,
I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail...
A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation
of the node tool in QGIS 3.
I see two reasons for this:
1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work
in QGIS 2:
a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something
whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something
b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was
changed to click - release - move - click - release
2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new
implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature
(most of the bugs are fixed now).
Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics
concentrate around:
1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing
vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well
defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very
close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse:
overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will
fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround
is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is
highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the
Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder.
2) Highlighting effect is disturbing.
3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be
moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it has
been added (e.g. for topological reasons).
4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is
highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see
also 1).
5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most
intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you click
a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your
way to move it.
6) The behaviour is not consistent:
a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is
highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first
select them, then click them, then move them.
b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is
highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it when
it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them.
The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid,
even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect
(it wasn't in QGIS 2 either).
So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like to
hear other users' s opinions.
While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance
digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping of
the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately
move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in
those cases where the node can be easily grabbed in the first place).
But this new workflow is the main cause for the problems listed above.
Therefore we would like to see the old workflow reimplemented with some
of the new ideas added plus some new ingredients. This is the draft for
how the tool might work in the future:
1) While the mouse is moved around features are highlighted to indicate
they can be edited. Furthermore eventual vertices, segments or crosses
are highlighted, too (as in QGIS 3).
2) While a feature is being highlighted, it can be chosen with a left
click (new).
3) If the user makes a right click instead, another (adjacent) feature
is highlighted and can be chosen with a subsequent left click and so on
(new).
4) As soon as a feature is chosen, the Vertex-Editor panel is opened (as
in QGIS 2).
5) A chosen feature is the only feature whose vertices can be edited at
that point* (as in QGIS 2). The chosen feature and all its vertices stay
visible until the end of this feature's editing session (as in QGIS 2).
If a vertex was highlighted it is immediately selected, if a segment was
highlighted, its two vertices are immediately selected, if the middle of
a segment was highlighted with a cross a new vertex is created there and
immediately selected (new).
6) A vertex is selected by left clicking on it (as in QGIS 2).
7) Several vertices are selected by using a mouse window (as in QGIS 2
and 3).
8) A click on a segment selects its two vertices (as in QGIS 2).
9) Vertices can be selected via the Vertex-Editor panel, too (as was in
QGIS 2)
10) Every new vertex selection clears any previuos selection except if
Crtl is pressed which adds the new selection to the current if vertices
were not selected or subtracts them from the current selection if they
were selected (as in QGIS 2).
11) Selected vertices can be deleted (as in QGIS 2 and 3).
12) Selected vertices can be moved by clicking either of them, thus the
vertex (the vertices) are attached to the mouse and can be dropped with
another left click (as in QGIS 3). A right click aborts the moving
operation but the vertices are still selected (new).
13) A new vertex can be created by double clicking on any segment (as in
QGIS 2 and 3), the new vertex is immediately selected (new).
14) A right click ends the chosen feature's editing session, if another
feature is within reach it is immediately highlighted, continue as in 1)
(new).
14b) To be discussed: Left clicking another feature immediately chooses
this feature (as in QGIS 2).
* topological editing is still posssible, of course
We see the following advantages in this approach:
1) The new quick editing possibilities are preserved, there is just one
additional click (compared to current QGIS 3) to move an existing vertex
or segment or to create and immediately move a new vertex.
2) It is easier to create a new vertex in place.
3) It is a lot easier to graphically choose the feature to edit.
4) The highlighting indicates, which feature will be chosen by an
immediate click, no surprises for the user.
5) It is easier to graphically select the vertices to edit.
6) The workflow is always the same: Choose feature - select vertices -
do something with them.
7) The workflow is consistent with creating a new feature (right click
to finish editing).
8) The application is more consistent because graphically selecting
vertices works the exact same way as graphically selecting features with
the Select-features tool.
I appreciate your feedback
Bernhard
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Denis Rouzaud
de...@opengis.ch <de...@opengis.ch>
+41 76 370 21 22
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Bernhard Ströbl
Anwendungsbetreuer GIS
Kommunale Immobilien Jena
Am Anger 26
07743 Jena
Tel.: 03641 49- 5190
E-Mail: bernhard.stro...@jena.de
Internet: www.kij.de
Kommunale Immobilien Jena
Eigenbetrieb der Stadt Jena
Werkleiter: Karl-Hermann Kliewe
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