When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be confirmed?
Whilst searching the web, one site virtually stated that anything a person produces is automatically subject to copyright. Another site stated that copyrights can be registered. Do any of the QL programs expressly claim copyright? Compare the situation with that of books, many display the word 'copyright' on an introductory page. Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim. I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They are written by insiders for the use of insiders. As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts ideosyncrasies. Colin -----Original Message----- From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com Sent: 09 July 2016 10:39 To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com Subject: Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17 Send Ql-Users mailing list submissions to ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.q-v-d.com/listinfo.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com You can reach the person managing the list at ql-users-ow...@lists.q-v-d.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ql-Users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project (Norman Dunbar) 2. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project (Norman Dunbar) 3. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project (Derek Stewart) 4. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project (Richard Howe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:09:15 +0100 From: Norman Dunbar <nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk> To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Message-ID: <9e7f06d5-7bb9-400c-a399-ad5524b62...@dunbar-it.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Still a verb. It's an action. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe I wish I could get out of the sun! But it's too sunny and way to hot for a Jock like me! Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:11:35 +0100 From: Norman Dunbar <nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk> To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Message-ID: <3860c8a4-f79d-4470-bc70-67312f05c...@dunbar-it.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Whoops! To infringe, verb. An infringement noun. Apologies. Cheers, Norm. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:41:13 +0100 From: Derek Stewart <de...@q40.de> To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Message-ID: <5780aa99.9000...@q40.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hi Richard, I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review in QL Wolrd. I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. I am sorry for not buying it direct from you. Regards, Derek On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote: > Hi > > I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread > caught my attention. > > Issues: > 1. Integrity. > 2. Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls > themselves. > 3. Copyright. > > 1. Integrity. > Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is > 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to > projects that interest the community. Those who break copyright law > are ignorant of this, their minds commonly lacking respect for others. > Those who simply observe the law have missed the point. > > 2. Letting go. > When encountering people of low integrity it is important first to > recognise them for the ignorant people they are, and quickly say > 'bye'. It's easy to forgive them because they are obviously too > ignorant to dig themselves out of the pit they have dug for > themselves. Allowing trolls space in your mind will lead to your poor > health as you are allowing your own ego to mull over their negative > words. Simply know the community is constructive, and will dismiss them and their comments. Only trolls really engage with trolls. > Letting go is an important healing principle. > > 3. Copyright. > I would not be fussed if copies of my old QL programs were passed around. > However, I am writing a website that uses a few original ideas in > them, and I 'would' be fussed if the ideas were misused and undermined > my current project. The law allows for 'fair use' of parts of a > copyright item and this is wise. Special licences can also widen the > availability for users while protecting essentials for the author. > Perhaps I should mention that thirty years ago I wrote the Spy and Master Spy editors, Archivist, Mailfile, etc. > Back then there were enthusiasts but few buyers, much like today. I > haven't sold anything QL in the last twenty years. I seem to remember > all the profits were ploughed back into advertising. That's the nature > of the game sometimes. > > Kind regards > Richard Howe > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of > Rich Mellor > Sent: 07 July 2016 14:32 > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > Preservation Project > > On 07/07/2016 11:13, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Just my 2 cents worth. >> >> As I understand it, Rich came under attack from some (as yet unnamed) >> sources because he (i) sells old programs for the QL and (ii) sent >> take-down notices (or was suspected of sending them) to sites that >> apparently hosted copyrighted files without the owners' consent. >> >> It goes without saying that being attacked for these actions is just >> unacceptable. I'm alarmed, Rich, that this should cause you health >> problems. I believe that the echo your decision got on the list here >> shows that people here do support you. >> >> Except for the health problem, I'm not sure that I understand why >> this causes you to stop your preservation project. Surely the best >> strategy to adopt is to ignore the <your favorite swear word here> >> who bring these attacks - and go on as before ? >> >> I think, Rich, that you should publish here extracts of the offending >> emails or whatever form that correspondence took, together with the >> author's names, so that I, for one, could be sure not to have any >> contact with them. >> >> >> The discussion now seems to center on whether all QL software should >> be made available for free. I agree with much of what Marcel writes, >> in that I also think that all of this 30+ years old software >> **should** be free. Like Marcel, I'm in the process of releasing my >> commercial programs as freeware, as and when I get around to it. >> However, the decision to do so is mine and nobody else's. Likewise, >> the decision for others to do so with their software is theirs. Do I >> think that that old software should be released for free, like Marcel >> does ? Sure ! Would I, like Marcel, refuse to pay a cent for any old >> game ? Yup : if it isn't free, I don't even look at it. >> >> But I don't see what's wrong with copyright owners holding on to >> their property, nor with Rich trying to sell some software and make >> some money from it. I do not understand the mindset of people who >> believe that these things MUST NECESSARILY be free and if they >> aren't, then the copyright owners and traders are evil, and fair game >> for any sort of abuse (I'm not accusing anybody on this list of thinking that way!). >> >> Is the fact that some copyright owners try to make a buck off their >> software in any way nefarious or detrimental to the QL scene ? In >> other words, do we loose users because of it ? I don't believe so. I >> frankly fail to believe that someone new to the QL scene would look >> at it, look at the software available, think < hey that's a game I >> must have > and then go away when he discovers that the game is still >> being > sold.. >> >> As to the problem of hosting these still copyrighted files, I like >> Marcel's analogy with (minor!) traffic law violations - you can >> choose, say, to double-park < just for a few minutes > and run the >> risk of getting a fine. Likewise, you can also choose to host >> copyrighted files and run the risk of criminal proceedings (with much > higher penalties). >> The risk of being sued is probably minimal. The operating words being >> < probable > -i.e. not certain, and < minimal > i.e. not null. It is >> up to each of us to assess that risk and ask themselves whether they >> want to run it. However, as one of those darned lawyers myself, what >> would I tell a client if he asked me whether he should/could host >> copyrighted files (w/o the copyright owners' permission, that is) ? >> The answer would be a clear and unequivocal < no >. >> >> QL forever! >> >> Wolfgang >> _______________________________________________ >> QL-Users Mailing List >> > Maybe with our legal backgrounds, we both see the need to protect > rights and for that reason neither of us would get involved in hosting > copyrighted files. > > I think the need to obtain the copyright holders' permission is > paramount - if you do not bother to approach them and are later found > out as having breached their copyright, then it is a much more fraught > position than if you contacted them first and ascertained what they would like to happen. > > Let's face it, if someone approached a best selling author and said - > could we host downloads of your books from the 1980s which have been > out of print for 20 years, they may well say yes - I would love to see it. > But if you offer the books for download and then someone pointed them > to your site, they are much much less likely to think that is acceptable. > > As for the impact on my health - the problem is that (as some people > are > aware) I have been struggling with poor health now for 2 1/2 years - > the stress of dealing with these personal attacks on both myself and > my business just compounds that as it adds to my (already) poor sleep. > > I would rather not publicise the attacks further by including extracts > - but there are several (generally Spanish) forums and even a well > known Spectrum forum where these attacks have been levied (generally > started by the same username, but then carried on by others). > > -- > Rich Mellor > RWAP Services > Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services > > www.rwapservices.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > QL-Users Mailing List > > _______________________________________________ > QL-Users Mailing List > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:37:55 +0100 From: "Richard Howe" <rich...@arkd.co.uk> To: <ql-us...@q-v-d.com> Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Message-ID: <000c01d1d9c5$92e438b0$b8acaa10$@arkd.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Derek I am pleased you found it useful, and pleased you bought it from Tom (last name Dolezal). I remember TK Computerware as a consistent supporter and retailer of QL and Z88 products at the time. Tom worked in Ashford, Kent but I think he moved in the 90s. When credit card fraud began to take hold. He 'sold' a Z88 to a fraudster who later phoned him and boasted about the fraud. Wolfgang suggested 'some people are just evil'. Well that kind of deliberate torture comes close. On a positive note I did get some fraudsters arrested one time, they were under 18 apparently. Their leader had the sense to leg it but must have had a few sleepless nights. Still, that's another story. Best wishes Richard Howe -----Original Message----- From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Derek Stewart Sent: 09 July 2016 08:41 To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project Hi Richard, I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review in QL Wolrd. I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. I am sorry for not buying it direct from you. Regards, Derek On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote: > Hi > > I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread > caught my attention. > > Issues: > 1. Integrity. > 2. Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls > themselves. > 3. Copyright. > > 1. Integrity. > Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is > 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to > projects that interest the community. Those who break copyright law > are ignorant of this, their minds commonly lacking respect for others. > Those who simply observe the law have missed the point. > > 2. Letting go. > When encountering people of low integrity it is important first to > recognise them for the ignorant people they are, and quickly say > 'bye'. It's easy to forgive them because they are obviously too > ignorant to dig themselves out of the pit they have dug for > themselves. Allowing trolls space in your mind will lead to your poor > health as you are allowing your own ego to mull over their negative > words. Simply know the community is constructive, and will dismiss > them and their comments. Only trolls really engage with trolls. > Letting go is an important healing principle. > > 3. Copyright. > I would not be fussed if copies of my old QL programs were passed around. > However, I am writing a website that uses a few original ideas in > them, and I 'would' be fussed if the ideas were misused and undermined > my current project. The law allows for 'fair use' of parts of a > copyright item and this is wise. Special licences can also widen the > availability for users while protecting essentials for the author. > Perhaps I should mention that thirty years ago I wrote the Spy and > Master Spy editors, Archivist, Mailfile, etc. > Back then there were enthusiasts but few buyers, much like today. I > haven't sold anything QL in the last twenty years. I seem to remember > all the profits were ploughed back into advertising. That's the nature > of the game sometimes. > > Kind regards > Richard Howe > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of > Rich Mellor > Sent: 07 July 2016 14:32 > To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com > Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software > Preservation Project > > On 07/07/2016 11:13, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Just my 2 cents worth. >> >> As I understand it, Rich came under attack from some (as yet unnamed) >> sources because he (i) sells old programs for the QL and (ii) sent >> take-down notices (or was suspected of sending them) to sites that >> apparently hosted copyrighted files without the owners' consent. >> >> It goes without saying that being attacked for these actions is just >> unacceptable. I'm alarmed, Rich, that this should cause you health >> problems. I believe that the echo your decision got on the list here >> shows that people here do support you. >> >> Except for the health problem, I'm not sure that I understand why >> this causes you to stop your preservation project. Surely the best >> strategy to adopt is to ignore the <your favorite swear word here> >> who bring these attacks - and go on as before ? >> >> I think, Rich, that you should publish here extracts of the offending >> emails or whatever form that correspondence took, together with the >> author's names, so that I, for one, could be sure not to have any >> contact with them. >> >> >> The discussion now seems to center on whether all QL software should >> be made available for free. I agree with much of what Marcel writes, >> in that I also think that all of this 30+ years old software >> **should** be free. Like Marcel, I'm in the process of releasing my >> commercial programs as freeware, as and when I get around to it. >> However, the decision to do so is mine and nobody else's. Likewise, >> the decision for others to do so with their software is theirs. Do I >> think that that old software should be released for free, like Marcel >> does ? Sure ! Would I, like Marcel, refuse to pay a cent for any old >> game ? Yup : if it isn't free, I don't even look at it. >> >> But I don't see what's wrong with copyright owners holding on to >> their property, nor with Rich trying to sell some software and make >> some money from it. I do not understand the mindset of people who >> believe that these things MUST NECESSARILY be free and if they >> aren't, then the copyright owners and traders are evil, and fair game >> for any sort of abuse (I'm not accusing anybody on this list of >> thinking that way!). >> >> Is the fact that some copyright owners try to make a buck off their >> software in any way nefarious or detrimental to the QL scene ? In >> other words, do we loose users because of it ? I don't believe so. I >> frankly fail to believe that someone new to the QL scene would look >> at it, look at the software available, think < hey that's a game I >> must have > and then go away when he discovers that the game is still >> being > sold.. >> >> As to the problem of hosting these still copyrighted files, I like >> Marcel's analogy with (minor!) traffic law violations - you can >> choose, say, to double-park < just for a few minutes > and run the >> risk of getting a fine. Likewise, you can also choose to host >> copyrighted files and run the risk of criminal proceedings (with much > higher penalties). >> The risk of being sued is probably minimal. The operating words being >> < probable > -i.e. not certain, and < minimal > i.e. not null. It is >> up to each of us to assess that risk and ask themselves whether they >> want to run it. However, as one of those darned lawyers myself, what >> would I tell a client if he asked me whether he should/could host >> copyrighted files (w/o the copyright owners' permission, that is) ? >> The answer would be a clear and unequivocal < no >. >> >> QL forever! >> >> Wolfgang >> _______________________________________________ >> QL-Users Mailing List >> > Maybe with our legal backgrounds, we both see the need to protect > rights and for that reason neither of us would get involved in hosting > copyrighted files. > > I think the need to obtain the copyright holders' permission is > paramount - if you do not bother to approach them and are later found > out as having breached their copyright, then it is a much more fraught > position than if you contacted them first and ascertained what they > would like to happen. > > Let's face it, if someone approached a best selling author and said - > could we host downloads of your books from the 1980s which have been > out of print for 20 years, they may well say yes - I would love to see it. > But if you offer the books for download and then someone pointed them > to your site, they are much much less likely to think that is acceptable. > > As for the impact on my health - the problem is that (as some people > are > aware) I have been struggling with poor health now for 2 1/2 years - > the stress of dealing with these personal attacks on both myself and > my business just compounds that as it adds to my (already) poor sleep. > > I would rather not publicise the attacks further by including extracts > - but there are several (generally Spanish) forums and even a well > known Spectrum forum where these attacks have been levied (generally > started by the same username, but then carried on by others). > > -- > Rich Mellor > RWAP Services > Specialist Enuuk Auction Programming Services > > www.rwapservices.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > QL-Users Mailing List > > _______________________________________________ > QL-Users Mailing List > _______________________________________________ QL-Users Mailing List ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ QL-Users mailing list ------------------------------ End of Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ QL-Users Mailing List
