To answer some of the questions, think mainly Jim's: There is a lot of history to my turbo zetec. Too much for here, however will try to pick out relevant points.
My original aim for the turbo was significant performance increase at a decent price and push the boundaries a little. The engine originally cost £150 with 30k miles and had done about another 30 in standard form. I wasn't worried about the engine at that price and general consensus was that at LP the zetec would be OK with 8psi boost. I designed and made my own manifold and modified an intercooler etc. I decided on using a Chinese Garrett copy turbo. Why? Because when I investigated, noone could tell me how good they were, based on data and evidence. Everything was heresay. I wanted to know so I used one and at £150 was essentially disposable. Anyway the turbo worked fine no lag and great performance. On the RR it pulled about 240bhp and 240 ft lb torque. It did a number of track days, but finally cried enough at Snetterton, when a chufgjng noise and heavy crankcase pressure indicated a compression issue. At the time I bought a second engine from a breakers, stripped and rebuilt, with a spreader plate to reduce compression to 9:1. This was intended as a temporary configuration to drop the compression to a safe level, with no real loss of non turbo torque or turbo lag. This configuration was successful, but the engine was tired and obviously had done a lot more mileage than the claimed 80k. So recently I set about rebuilding the original with the intent of finding the problem and rebuilding to a good and reliable standard. The current issue is: Engine 1: scored bore and one broken piston. Engine 2: worn and oval bores, good pistons. My first choice is to get the custom forged pistons made through Cambridge motorsport that use the standard rods, with a plan B of forged pistons and rods with silvertop con rod lengths and compression height. . Sorry for the long post and trust me this is very much abbreviated. Nigel On Fri, 26 Mar 2021, 18:24 list...@liberator-systems.co.uk, < lists...@liberator-systems.co.uk> wrote: > @nigel > My big bore cvh motor is linered according to Power Engineering who did > the engine conversion work. It hasn't blown up yet although as I said > earlier I was planning to replace it with a 2.0 zetec blacktop for easier > power increases - may need to re-think that if blacktop piston availability > is an ongoing issue. > > @jimLOL your comments re engine reconditioners - there are certainly some > dodgy ones. To be fair there are also some decent companies - I have been > inside several - impressive machinery and skiled folks operating them. Of > course s/h engine is always going to be the cheapest option but most are an > unknown quantity - even if you get a short guarantee you can waste a lot of > time installing only to discover it has problems and has to be pulled out > again.... > > John > > On Friday, 26 March 2021 at 17:20:39 UTC Jim Hearne wrote: > >> Detonation will kill a turbo engine really quickly. >> And running standard compression it’s going to detonate at anything above >> a tiny level of boost. >> What boost were you running ? >> I assume it has a aftermarket ecu ?, does it have a knock sensor on it ? >> >> Not really heard of sleeving being used on a cast iron block but i guess >> it’s possible. >> The joint between the sleeve and the block may reduce it’s heat transfer >> ability which is of course just what you don’t want. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Nigel Plant >> *Sent:* Friday, March 26, 2021 5:05 PM >> *To:* quantu...@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [Quantum Owners] 2L Zetec Blacktop Pistons >> Silvertop oversize pistons are readily available. >> I think mine failed due to about 20 track days approx 10 with turbo and >> too much fuel at start up. I also ran with standard compression and there >> was significant evidence of pre detonation particularly on the #3 piston >> which failed. However I dont think it was significant enough to be the >> cause. I dont yet have the piston, so haven't inspected it in detail. >> I do have a second engine but that has worn bores. One option is to use >> that but with the block sleeved so I can reuse those pistons. Does anyone >> have experience of sleeving, I dont, so am hesitant to go that route. >> >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021, 16:37 list...@liberator-systems.co.uk, < >> list...@liberator-systems.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> I was planning to drop a 2.0l blacktop and possibly turbo into my >>> saloon. This piston availablity issue is making me think twice. Is it the >>> same problem for the old silvertop? How many manufacturers are there for >>> standard type pistons? Wondering how the engine reconditioning businesses >>> source their pistons. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 18:36:23 UTC nige...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Jim, will respond to your other later, some interesting points! >>>> Oversize pistons for blacktop are quoted for on plenty of web sites, but >>>> are never available. Supplier calls the manufacturer and they all come back >>>> with same story. >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 16:23 Jim Hearne, <j...@quantums.info> wrote: >>>> >>>>> As you say, i don’t think Ford sells pistons for a Black top Zetec as >>>>> a spare, they want you to replace the whole bottom end. >>>>> The Zetec SE is the same. >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* susanandmartin >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 25, 2021 3:28 PM >>>>> *To:* quantu...@googlegroups.com >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Quantum Owners] 2L Zetec Blacktop Pistons >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Not that it helps with your quest, but (hopefully) of interest. >>>>> >>>>> When I was working at Ford we had an engine being tested for cold >>>>> start durability at a University. As proof (if it was ever needed) that >>>>> starting an engine repeatedly from cold with a fuel-enriched intake >>>>> mixture >>>>> would wreck an engine, there was a need for new pistons after several >>>>> months and x000’s of start procedures. When trying to source new pistons, >>>>> however, it was found they were not listed as a spare and could only be >>>>> bought with an engine block. As this wouldn’t help our engine block >>>>> durability testing, great discussions ensued taking several hours and it >>>>> was agreed some pistons could be supplied direct from the assembly line >>>>> (maybe one car was released without pistons? 😊). This is a good >>>>> example of how Ford goes to great lengths with their testing (and probably >>>>> other manufacturers do as well). >>>>> >>>>> Martin Scott >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for >>>>> Windows 10 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *Nigel Plant >>>>> *Sent: *25 March 2021 12:15 >>>>> *To: *Quantum Owners Group >>>>> *Subject: *[Quantum Owners] 2L Zetec Blacktop Pistons >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Probably one that's right up Jim's street. Does anyone have the Ford >>>>> specification for 2L Zetec blacktop pistons. Need gudgeon pin diameter, >>>>> compression height essentially all the key dimensions. I have broken a >>>>> piston on my Xtreme turbo such that it needs reboring and cannot get any >>>>> standard but oversize pistons. Am also told that Nural and Mahle have no >>>>> production plans to manufacture any. I can get forged pistons and rods, >>>>> which would be better performance wise but didn't want to drop compression >>>>> to 8:1 or fork out £1200. 9:1 is my ideal for the power I want. I have >>>>> found a custom piston manufacture for forged pistons alone, but they >>>>> require a piston (no problem) and the key specs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For information, I have learnt one interesting point that people may >>>>> find useful. Although the silvertop and black top have different length >>>>> conrods (ctr to ctr) and different compression heights. The combined >>>>> total >>>>> of conrod length and compression height for the silvertop and blacktop are >>>>> the same, meaning a set of silvertop conrods and pistons can be used to >>>>> replace the blacktop ones. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any help on the specs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nigel Plant >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>>>> >>>>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an >>>>> "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the >>>>> Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners >>>>> Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any >>>>> liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or >>>>> damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the >>>>> instructions contained within this or related message(s). >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/f7746385-3a1a-4d8c-b901-f6b726a67128n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/f7746385-3a1a-4d8c-b901-f6b726a67128n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>>>> >>>>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an >>>>> "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the >>>>> Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners >>>>> Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any >>>>> liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or >>>>> damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the >>>>> instructions contained within this or related message(s). >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/605cac02.1c69fb81.6c006.721fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING%40gmr-mx.google.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/605cac02.1c69fb81.6c006.721fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING%40gmr-mx.google.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>>>> >>>>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an >>>>> "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the >>>>> Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners >>>>> Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any >>>>> liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or >>>>> damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the >>>>> instructions contained within this or related message(s). >>>>> --- >>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/quantumowners/h0WcBPGGEmI/unsubscribe >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/F9F61C313F874DC69459BA51EB68A588%40JimQuad >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/F9F61C313F874DC69459BA51EB68A588%40JimQuad?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >>> >>> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >>> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum >>> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >>> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >>> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >>> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >>> within this or related message(s). >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/quantumowners/h0WcBPGGEmI/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/4ccd9719-0212-4222-ad27-68cba4df9db5n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/4ccd9719-0212-4222-ad27-68cba4df9db5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Quantum Owners Group" group. >> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> quantumowner...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en >> >> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As >> Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum >> Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or >> in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any >> person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or >> alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained >> within this or related message(s). >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Quantum Owners Group" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/CADm3PgQK8dY2TBv9HRj8FxC1XXsJ-CTaEX95No9-AueVX421%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/CADm3PgQK8dY2TBv9HRj8FxC1XXsJ-CTaEX95No9-AueVX421%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Quantum Owners Group" group. > To post to this group, send email to quantumowners@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > quantumowners-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en > > IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As > Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum > Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or > in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any > person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or > alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained > within this or related message(s). > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/quantumowners/h0WcBPGGEmI/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > quantumowners+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/9656a3f9-145b-4ce2-9a9a-4786bf44f2b3n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/9656a3f9-145b-4ce2-9a9a-4786bf44f2b3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. 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