.... On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Hadley Wickham <had...@rice.edu> wrote: > That assumes: > > * Everyone reads the mailing list before making the first posting > > * Everyone reads every part of every email. > > I'd argue that both assumptions are false. People are particular well > trained to skip over boilerplate text at the bottom of emails.
-- which is why I suggested that Jim Lemon's brief version go at the top. There's obviously no magic bullet. We're in the realm of social psychology, I guess, here, so I certainly don't have much insight. But I think the experiment is easy and worth trying. -- Bert > > I'd suggest an alternative approach is for experts to remember what > it's like to be a novice, and cultivate an attitude of patience and > tolerance. That's about as likely to happen as a mass change in > behaviour in new users. > > Hadley > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 9:48 AM, John Kane <jrkrid...@inbox.com> wrote: >> I'd vote for that! >> It would probably bug the blazes out of experienced users but the time >> savings in getting a newbie to actually supply enough information so that >> someone can, at least, try to answer the question would be well worth it. >> >> John Kane >> Kingston ON Canada >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: gunter.ber...@gene.com >>> Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 07:49:28 -0700 >>> To: jrkrid...@inbox.com >>> Subject: Re: [R] On Reproducible Code >>> >>> I agree and would like to see it placed at the **TOP** of every post. >>> >>> -- Bert >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 7:11 AM, John Kane <jrkrid...@inbox.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: j...@bitwrit.com.au >>>>> Sent: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 19:21:36 +1000 >>>>> To: dcarl...@tamu.edu >>>>> Subject: Re: [R] On Reproducible Code >>>>> >>>>> On 07/26/2012 01:50 AM, David L Carlson wrote: >>>>>> We often refer requesters to the Posting Guide and chide them for not >>>>>> reading it. >>>>> >... >>>>>> I hesitate to sound too optimistic, but there might be some advantage >>>>>> in >>>>>> making the statement more prominent and adding a reproducible example >>>>>> using >>>>>> dput(). >>>>>> >>>>> The reponses to some requests for help do seem to get a volley of the >>>>> "reproducible code" answers. Some, such as: >>>>> >>>>> I can't get the answer. PLEASE HELP!!! >>>>> >>>>> probably deserve it, but others appear to emerge from the overheated >>>>> brain of the frustrated noob. With a wonderfully informative name like >>>>> "dput", it is rather challenging to guess that this function is the way >>>>> to calm the affronted guru with an example of your problem. I am >>>>> particularly amused by the phrase "reproducible code", which sounds >>>>> perilously close to the definition of a virus. Perhaps the neglected >>>>> little message at the bottom of each email (which seems to reproduce >>>>> itself) might be easier for the uninitiated to understand if it read: >>>>> >>>>> Please include the R code that is causing the problem _and_ enough data >>>>> (see the "dput" function) for someone else to run the code and get the >>>>> same problem. >>>>> >>>>> I can remember when I didn't know that there was a "dput" function. >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>> I can remember spending a lot of time constructing a data set to post >>>> before someone mentioned ?dput. Ah, yes, I still have a couple of >>>> generic ones archived. >>>> >>>> I think your wording above makes a lot of sense. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> GET FREE SMILEYS FOR YOUR IM & EMAIL - Learn more at >>>> http://www.inbox.com/smileys >>>> Works with AIM®, MSN® Messenger, Yahoo!® Messenger, ICQ®, Google Talk™ >>>> and most webmails >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> R-help@r-project.org mailing list >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Bert Gunter >>> Genentech Nonclinical Biostatistics >>> >>> Internal Contact Info: >>> Phone: 467-7374 >>> Website: >>> http://pharmadevelopment.roche.com/index/pdb/pdb-functional-groups/pdb-biostatistics/pdb-ncb-home.htm >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help@r-project.org mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > -- > Assistant Professor / Dobelman Family Junior Chair > Department of Statistics / Rice University > http://had.co.nz/ -- Bert Gunter Genentech Nonclinical Biostatistics Internal Contact Info: Phone: 467-7374 Website: http://pharmadevelopment.roche.com/index/pdb/pdb-functional-groups/pdb-biostatistics/pdb-ncb-home.htm ______________________________________________ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.