Yes Greg, but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty cheaply - SAS think it's only for a few nerds out there who wan to do funny stuff.
G Greg Snow <greg.s...@imail. org> To Sent by: "Gerard M. Keogh" r-help-boun...@r- <gmke...@justice.ie>, Frank E project.org Harrell Jr <f.harr...@vanderbilt.edu> cc 27/02/2009 19:05 "r-help-boun...@r-project.org" <r-help-boun...@r-project.org>, R list <r-h...@stat.math.ethz.ch> Subject Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming But SAS/IML is not part of base SAS, it costs extra, so there is a good chance that a user that has SAS will not be able to run code that uses SAS/IML. I have known of SAS programmers who know IML well that still write matrix/vector tools using macros or proc transpose so that a user without IML can still use the code (the fact that the code that started this thread was found on a website, suggests that it was meant for general use rather than something only used internally where you know what add-ons will be available). Just another way that R makes life easier for both programmer and user. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.s...@imail.org 801.408.8111 > -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r- > project.org] On Behalf Of Gerard M. Keogh > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:19 AM > To: Frank E Harrell Jr > Cc: r-help-boun...@r-project.org; R list > Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming > > Yes Frank, I accept your point but nevertheless IML is the proper place > for > matrix work in SAS - mixing macro-level logic and computation is > another > question - R is certainly more seemless in this respect. > > Gerard > > > > Frank E Harrell > Jr > <f.harr...@vander > To > bilt.edu> "Gerard M. Keogh" > <gmke...@justice.ie> > 27/02/2009 13:55 > cc > R list <r- > h...@stat.math.ethz.ch>, > r-help-boun...@r-project.org > > Subject > Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS > Programming > > > > > > > > > > > Gerard M. Keogh wrote: > > Frank, > > > > I can't see the code you mention - Web marshall at work - but I don't > think > > you should be too quick to run down SAS - it's a powerful and > flexible > > language but unfortunately very expensive. > > > > Your example mentions doing a vector product in the macro language - > this > > only suggest to me that those people writing the code need a crash > course > > in SAS/IML (the matrix language). SAS is designed to work on records > and > so > > is inapproprorriate for matrices - macros are only an efficient code > > copying device. Doing matrix computations in this way is pretty mad > and > the > > code would be impossible never mind the memory problems. > > SAS recognise that but a lot of SAS users remain familiar with IML. > > > > In IML by contrast there are inner, cross and outer products and a > raft > of > > other useful methods for matrix work that R users would be familiar > with. > > OLS for example is one line: > > > > b = solve(X`X, X`y) ; > > rss = sqrt(ssq(y - Xb)) ; > > > > And to give you a flavour of IML's capabilities I implemented a SAS > version > > of the MARS program in it about 6 or 7 years ago. > > BTW SPSS also has a matrix language. > > > > Gerard > > But try this: > > PROC IML; > ... some custom user code ... > ... loop over j=1 to 10 ... > ... PROC GENMOD, output results back to IML > ... > > IML is only a partial solution since it is not integrated with the PROC > step. > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank E Harrell > > > Jr > > > <f.harr...@vander > To > > bilt.edu> R list <r- > h...@stat.math.ethz.ch> > > > Sent by: > cc > > r-help-boun...@r- > > > project.org > Subject > > [R] Inefficiency of SAS > Programming > > > > > 26/02/2009 22:57 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to > > program in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US > > Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and > > reporting for hospital outcomes at > > http://www.qualityindicators.ahrq.gov/software.htm . The PSSASP3.SAS > > program is a prime example. Look at how you do a vector product in > the > > SAS macro language to evaluate predictions from a logistic regression > > model. I estimate that using R would easily cut the programming time > of > > this set of programs by a factor of 4. > > > > Frank > > -- > > Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine > > Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt > University > > > > ______________________________________________ > > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > PLEASE do read the posting guide > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > > > > > > *********************************************************************** > *********** > > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity > to > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. 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