for an " inefficient " language , it sure has dominated the predictive analytics world for 3 plus decades. I referred once to intellectual jealousy between newton and liebnitz.
i am going ahead and creating the R package called "Anne". It basically is meant only for SAS users who want to learn R , without upsetting the schedule of the corporate users. Simply put , it is a wrapper on SAS language using the function command...ie procunivariate function in "Anne" package would call the summary function and so on... Regards, Ajay www.decisionstats.com On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Greg Snow <greg.s...@imail.org> wrote: > This does not really address my point. Yes, if the few nerds who want to > do funny stuff are the ones making the purchase, then there is a good chance > (but still not guaranteed) that they will get IML, but do all companies that > buy SAS actually think about that, or do they just see the extra price (no > matter how low), or not even think to look at that piece because the person > making the purchase does not really the funny things you can do with it. > > If you want your SAS code to be able to be run by anyone with SAS, you > cannot assume that they have IML. If you want your R code to be run by > anyone, you cannot make your code dependent on packages/tools that are not > available for all platforms. > > -- > Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. > Statistical Data Center > Intermountain Healthcare > greg.s...@imail.org > 801.408.8111 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gerard M. Keogh [mailto:gmke...@justice.ie] > > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 3:22 AM > > To: Greg Snow > > Cc: Frank E Harrell Jr; R list; r-help-boun...@r-project.org > > Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming > > > > Yes Greg, > > > > but if you're buying SAS they'll throw in IML pretty cheaply - SAS > > think > > it's only for a few nerds out there who wan to do funny stuff. > > > > G > > > > > > > > Greg Snow > > <greg.s...@imail. > > org> > > To > > Sent by: "Gerard M. Keogh" > > r-help-boun...@r- <gmke...@justice.ie>, Frank E > > project.org Harrell Jr > > <f.harr...@vanderbilt.edu> > > > > cc > > 27/02/2009 19:05 "r-help-boun...@r-project.org" > > <r-help-boun...@r-project.org>, > > R > > list <r-h...@stat.math.ethz.ch> > > > > Subject > > Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS > > Programming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But SAS/IML is not part of base SAS, it costs extra, so there is a good > > chance that a user that has SAS will not be able to run code that uses > > SAS/IML. > > > > I have known of SAS programmers who know IML well that still write > > matrix/vector tools using macros or proc transpose so that a user > > without > > IML can still use the code (the fact that the code that started this > > thread > > was found on a website, suggests that it was meant for general use > > rather > > than something only used internally where you know what add-ons will be > > available). > > > > Just another way that R makes life easier for both programmer and user. > > > > > > -- > > Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. > > Statistical Data Center > > Intermountain Healthcare > > greg.s...@imail.org > > 801.408.8111 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org [mailto:r-help-boun...@r- > > > project.org] On Behalf Of Gerard M. Keogh > > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:19 AM > > > To: Frank E Harrell Jr > > > Cc: r-help-boun...@r-project.org; R list > > > Subject: Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS Programming > > > > > > Yes Frank, I accept your point but nevertheless IML is the proper > > place > > > for > > > matrix work in SAS - mixing macro-level logic and computation is > > > another > > > question - R is certainly more seemless in this respect. > > > > > > Gerard > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank E Harrell > > > Jr > > > <f.harr...@vander > > > To > > > bilt.edu> "Gerard M. Keogh" > > > <gmke...@justice.ie> > > > 27/02/2009 13:55 > > > cc > > > R list <r- > > > h...@stat.math.ethz.ch>, > > > r-help-boun...@r-project.org > > > > > > Subject > > > Re: [R] Inefficiency of SAS > > > Programming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gerard M. Keogh wrote: > > > > Frank, > > > > > > > > I can't see the code you mention - Web marshall at work - but I > > don't > > > think > > > > you should be too quick to run down SAS - it's a powerful and > > > flexible > > > > language but unfortunately very expensive. > > > > > > > > Your example mentions doing a vector product in the macro language > > - > > > this > > > > only suggest to me that those people writing the code need a crash > > > course > > > > in SAS/IML (the matrix language). SAS is designed to work on > > records > > > and > > > so > > > > is inapproprorriate for matrices - macros are only an efficient > > code > > > > copying device. Doing matrix computations in this way is pretty mad > > > and > > > the > > > > code would be impossible never mind the memory problems. > > > > SAS recognise that but a lot of SAS users remain familiar with IML. > > > > > > > > In IML by contrast there are inner, cross and outer products and a > > > raft > > > of > > > > other useful methods for matrix work that R users would be familiar > > > with. > > > > OLS for example is one line: > > > > > > > > b = solve(X`X, X`y) ; > > > > rss = sqrt(ssq(y - Xb)) ; > > > > > > > > And to give you a flavour of IML's capabilities I implemented a SAS > > > version > > > > of the MARS program in it about 6 or 7 years ago. > > > > BTW SPSS also has a matrix language. > > > > > > > > Gerard > > > > > > But try this: > > > > > > PROC IML; > > > ... some custom user code ... > > > ... loop over j=1 to 10 ... > > > ... PROC GENMOD, output results back to IML > > > ... > > > > > > IML is only a partial solution since it is not integrated with the > > PROC > > > step. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank E Harrell > > > > > > > Jr > > > > > > > <f.harr...@vander > > > To > > > > bilt.edu> R list <r- > > > h...@stat.math.ethz.ch> > > > > > > > Sent by: > > > cc > > > > r-help-boun...@r- > > > > > > > project.org > > > Subject > > > > [R] Inefficiency of SAS > > > Programming > > > > > > > > > > > 26/02/2009 22:57 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone wants to see a prime example of how inefficient it is to > > > > program in SAS, take a look at the SAS programs provided by the US > > > > Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality for risk adjusting and > > > > reporting for hospital outcomes at > > > > http://www.qualityindicators.ahrq.gov/software.htm . The > > PSSASP3.SAS > > > > program is a prime example. Look at how you do a vector product in > > > the > > > > SAS macro language to evaluate predictions from a logistic > > regression > > > > model. I estimate that using R would easily cut the programming > > time > > > of > > > > this set of programs by a factor of 4. > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > -- > > > > Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of > > Medicine > > > > Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt > > > University > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > > > PLEASE do read the posting guide > > > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *********************************************************************** > > > *********** > > > > > > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or > > entity > > > to > > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged > > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or > > > taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or > > > entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you > > > received > > > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from > > > any > > > computer. It is the policy of the Department of Justice, Equality > > and > > > Law > > > Reform and the Agencies and Offices using its IT services to disallow > > > the > > > sending of offensive material. > > > > Should you consider that the material contained in this message is > > > offensive you should contact the sender immediately and also > > > mailminder[at]justice.ie. > > > > > > > > Is le haghaidh an duine nó an eintitis ar a bhfuil sí dírithe, agus > > > le > > > haghaidh an duine nó an eintitis sin amháin, a bheartaítear an > > > fhaisnéis a > > > tarchuireadh agus féadfaidh sé go bhfuil ábhar faoi rún agus/nó faoi > > > phribhléid inti. Toirmisctear aon athbhreithniú, atarchur nó leathadh > > a > > > dhéanamh ar an bhfaisnéis seo, aon úsáid eile a bhaint aisti nó aon > > > ghníomh > > > a dhéanamh ar a hiontaoibh, ag daoine nó ag eintitis seachas an > > > faighteoir > > > beartaithe. Má fuair tú é seo trí dhearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis > > an > > > seoltóir, le do thoil, agus scrios an t-ábhar as aon ríomhaire. Is é > > > beartas na Roinne Dlí agus Cirt, Comhionannais agus Athchóirithe Dlí, > > > agus > > > na nOifígí agus na nGníomhaireachtaí a úsáideann seirbhísí TF na > > > Roinne, > > > seoladh ábhair cholúil a dhícheadú. > > > > Más rud é go measann tú gur ábhar colúil atá san ábhar atá sa > > > teachtaireacht seo is ceart duit dul i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir > > > láithreach agus le mailminder[ag]justice.ie chomh maith. > > > > > > > > > *********************************************************************** > > > ************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Frank E Harrell Jr Professor and Chair School of Medicine > > > Department of Biostatistics Vanderbilt > > > University > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- > > > guide.html > > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > ______________________________________________ > > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > PLEASE do read the posting guide > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > ______________________________________________ > R-help@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
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