FYI, just noticed that the GPL is about (="a draft of which is due next year") to be revised into GPL v3. Maybe they will solve part of the problems you mention. Not much substance yet, but see
GPL 3 to Take on IP, Patents, eWeek, November 22, 2004 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1730102,00.asp and the slashdot discussion GPL Revision Coming Soon, slashdot, November 22, 2004 http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/22/1746225&tid=117 Question to Martin Maechler: Is it ok to change the subject title to, say, "Problem with GPL (Was: RE: ...)" when replying to a message? This thread has covered quite a wide range of topics this far. Cheers Henrik Bengtsson > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Spencer Graves > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:22 PM > To: Berton Gunter > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Patrick Burns'; 'Philippe Grosjean' > Subject: Re: [R] The hidden costs of GPL software? > > > I agree with Bert. Thanks to all who contributed. I'd like to > add one comment I didn't see in the thread so far: > > The corporate legal where I work is deathly afraid of the GNU > General Public License (GPL), because if we touch GPL software > inappropriately with our commercial software, our copyrights are > replaced by the GPL. This in turn means we can't charge royalties, > which means we can't repay the investors who covered our initial > development costs, and we file for bankruptcy. The rabid capitalists > meet the rabid socialists and walk away, shaking their heads. > (Sec. 2.b > of the GPL: "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, > that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the > Program or any > part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third > parties under the terms of this License." We can get around this by > packaging accesses to GPL software as separately installed add-on(s), > because then only the add-on(s) would be covered by the GPL.) Our > corporate legal is more concerned about a possible law suit from a > possible competitor than from the R Foundation, but the > threat is still > real and still being adjudicated in other cases. > > If the GPL were not so tight on this point, someone could > commercialize a GUI for R without having to offer their source code > under the GPL. > > However, even without this change, R seems to be the > platform of > choice for new statistical algorithm development by a growing > portion of > the international scientific community. Moreover, from my experience > with this listserve, the technical support here is far superior to > anything I've experienced with any other software in the 40+ > years since > I wrote my first Fortran code. > > Best Wishes, > spencer graves > > Berton Gunter wrote: > > >All: > > > >I have much enjoyed the discussion. Thanks to all who have > contibuted. > > > >Two quick comments: > > > >1. The problem of designing a GUI to make R's functionality more > >accessible is, I believe just one component of the larger issue of > >making statistical/data analysis functionality available to > those who > >need to use it but do not have sufficient understanding and > background > >to do so properly. I certainly include myself in this > category in many > >circumstances. A willingness and commitment to learning ( = > hard work!) > >is the only rational solution here, and saying that one doesn't have > >the time really doesn't cut it for me. Ditto for R language > >functionality? > > > >2. However, R has many attractive features for data manipulation and > >graphics that make it attractive for common tasks that are now done > >most frequently with (ugh!) Excel (NOT Statistica, Systat, et. al.). > >For this subset of R's functionality a GUI would be attractive. > >However, writing a good GUI for graphing that even begins to take > >advantage of R's flexibility and power in this arena is an > enormous -- > >perhaps an impossible -- task. Witness the S-Plus graphics > GUI, which I > >think is truly awful (and appears to thwart more than it helps, at > >least from many of the queries one sees on that news list). > So I'm not > >sanguine. > > > >Again, thanks to all for a thoughful and enjoyable discussion. > > > >-- Bert Gunter > >Genentech Non-Clinical Statistics > >South San Francisco, CA > > > >"The business of the statistician is to catalyze the scientific > >learning process." - George E. P. Box > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Burns > >>Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:28 AM > >>To: Jan P. Smit > >>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Philippe Grosjean; > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Subject: Re: [R] The hidden costs of GPL software? > >> > >>I'm a big advocate -- perhaps even fanatic -- of making R > easier for > >>novices in order to spread its use, but I'm not convinced > that a GUI > >>(at least in the traditional form) is the most valuable approach. > >> > >>Perhaps an overly harsh summary of some of Ted Harding's statements > >>is: You can make a truck easier to get into by taking off the > >>wheels, but > >>that doesn't make it more useful. > >> > >>In terms of GUIs, I think what R should focus on is the > >>ability for user's > >>to make their own specialized GUI. So that a knowledgeable > programmer > >>at an installation can create a system that is easy for > >>unsophisticated > >>users for the limited number of tasks that are to be done. > >>The ultimate > >>users may not even need to know that R exists. > >> > >>I think Ted Harding was on the mark when he said that it > is the help > >>system that needs enhancement. I can imagine a system that > gets the > >>user to the right function and then helps fill in the > arguments; all > >>of the time pointing them towards the command line rather than away > >>from it. > >> > >>The author of the referenced article highlighted some hidden > >>costs of R, > >>but did not highlight the hidden benefits (because they were > >>hidden from > >>him). A big benefit of R is all of the bugs that aren't in > >>it (which may or > >>may not be due to its free status). > >> > >>Patrick Burns > >> > >>Burns Statistics > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>+44 (0)20 8525 0696 > >>http://www.burns-stat.com > >>(home of S Poetry and "A Guide for the Unwilling S User") > >> > >>Jan P. Smit wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Dear Phillippe, > >>> > >>>Very interesting. The URL of the article is > >>>http://www.scientific-computing.com/scwsepoct04free_statist > ics.html. > >>> > >>>Best regards, > >>> > >>>Jan Smit > >>> > >>> > >>>Philippe Grosjean wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hello, > >>>> > >>>>In the latest 'Scientific Computing World' magazine (issue 78, p. > >>>>22), there > >>>>is a review on free statistical software by Felix Grant ("doesn't > >>>>have to > >>>>pay good money to obtain good statistics software"). As far as I > >>>>know, this > >>>>is the first time that R is even mentioned in this > magazine, given > >>>>that it > >>>>usually discuss commercial products. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>[ ...] > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>______________________________________________ > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > >>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > >>PLEASE do read the posting guide! > >>http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > >> > >> > >> > > > >______________________________________________ > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > >https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > >PLEASE do read the posting guide! > >http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > > > > -- > Spencer Graves, PhD, Senior Development Engineer > O: (408)938-4420; mobile: (408)655-4567 > > ______________________________________________ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide! > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > ______________________________________________ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html