That's a nice explanation that is more specific than my general thoughts along those lines.
I have a 1984 Trek 830 ATB that handles like a dream and it has long chainstays, a low bb and what I consider a short F-C (580mm ett). I found that to get comfortable on the bike, I needed a low angle (7 degree, I think) 120mm stem but that threw the handling all off and I didn't even like riding the bike. I switched to a higher angle, 110mm stem and it handles like a dream but I'm not comfortable due to the shortened distance to the handlebars. OTOH, my Karate Monkey has a 600mm ETT and with a 17 degree, 100mm stem, it's quite comfortable but the steering isn't very intuitive. I switched to a very high angle, 110mm stem (equivalent to a 7 degree, 85mm stem) and it now handles like a dream but is slightly less comfortable than it was, again, due to a shortened distance to the handlebars. Overall, both bikes are dialed in on the handling and both are less comfortable than they could be, but the KM is the better compromise between the two so I ride it more often. Both bikes are set up so that the handlebar obscures the front hub. I don't know if that's just a coincidence, or if there really is something to that almost universal recommendation. On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 12:36:49 PM UTC-5, Mitch Harris wrote: > > > > On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 10:51:12 AM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> I'd be *very* interested to learn more about this, and how it relates to >> f-c, trail, hta, tires, and so forth. Anyone? >> > > > Keeping the right balance of weight on the front wheel helps with that > nice turn-in you describe. It can be a challenge with any bike intended for > fendered use by people who don't like toe overlap, where designers are > trying to maximize front-center to keep toes out of fenders. That can be > mitigated a little in a low trail bike because an extra 20mm fork offset > puts the wheel further away. But in general low trail designs have longer > front-center than some, if only because of more fork offset. Mtbs > got elongated front-centers for endo-prevention from the late 90s > on--Fischer called it Genesis Geometry. Plus there's been a decades long > trend of preference for short chainstays. All this tends to take weight off > the front wheel (in the last instance of mtbs that was intended). Add to > that the front-end-lightening general trend for high handlebars in the RBW, > 600B, iBob world, and you can lose that nice front-weighted turn-in feel. > Long chainstays move weight back forward to the front end, all else equal, > and you see that in Riv models. Perhaps Grant has found a way to make a > bike intended for high bars, fenders, and no toe-overlap that nevertheless > keeps weight on the front wheel (by balancing a short as possible > front-center with long chainstays and low bb) for that planted feel > with responsive turn initiation. > > --Mitch > > > (non-Riv) low trail designs because extra fork offset can put the wheel > 20mm further out there (a lot). > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
