Thanks for that, Jock. Like you, I have no idea what 'planing' is. I've admired your orange Ebisu several times. What color is your new one?
Bill On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 6:14:30 AM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote: > > Hey, Bill, et. al.: > > Quoting BL: "I get it that ML (LGF) for years dwelled on flexy tubing > bikes, presumably from reading Jan Heine stuff. Jan Heine knows that the > weight of the bike doesn't matter. Jan Heine prefers the feel of a flexier > bike, but acknowledges that is an extremely nuanced, very subtle feeling. " > > We all love BQ for those tires and so many other things, too. But Mr. BQ > once wrote a couple years ago when someone asked why his Mafac levers were > missing the tiny thin rubber strips on top. The reply was 'to save weight.' > > That one had me questioning the whole endeavor honestly. > > I just had Hiroshi built me another EBISU frame. A 'Road' this time. In > our quite extensive communications he asked about tubing. I told him I > weigh 135 wringing wet and that I could probably get by with really light. > Frame is 58 cm (c-to-c). He asked about OS as opposed to 28.6 throughout. I > told him he's the expert, you decide. > > He said OK, 'I use 8-5-8 downtube then'. I said fine, my EBISU All Purpose > is 8-5-8 and it's light, fast, smooth as can be. I'm not privy to his > reasoning for that. I tend to keep my bicycles for the duration, but maybe > has to do with what happens passing it along to someone big and beefy, I > dunno. > > I do know this, however. My lastest EBISU replaces the bike attached. I > called it my MYSTERY bike, just to fool myself mostly. It was a SOMA > Stanyan, a good looking bike with SS lugs, fork crown, Taiwan Tange > Prestige but rather heavy I suppose. The very best bits, however. Wheels, > bars & stem, crankset, seatpost, etc. And whaddya know, turned out to be > maybe my favorite rider. Even though heavier and with much less provenance > than my other bikes, it always felt fast fast fast to me and always made me > want to push hard, the good kind of push. It just felt like it wanted to > go. I admit, after spending 50 years on the bike, and most of them on > really nice machines, I still don't really know what 'planing' is. And for > sure don't really care either. At my age, I can't see those angels dancing > on the pinhead anymore, and I've concluded that it doesn't matter anyway. > > Of course, to each his own. There is no single solution to any of these > positions. > > So I look forward to building the new one and will post some pix when I > complete it. Must be EBISU Time on the good ol' BOBList! > > BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA > > On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 11:48:23 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >> The poster previously known as Michael Levan, now known as Lum Gim Fong >> asked "Why not?" swap out my Leo Roadini for a different bike made of 6/4/6 >> tubing. He said I can have the fit and handling of a Leo Roadini, so I >> assume he means that he is recommending that I order a Custom Rivendell >> made with Leo Roadini geometry but with lighter, flexier tubing. Assuming >> that is what he is recommending, then the list of Why Nots would include: >> >> 1. The Leo Roadini was $900, and a Rivendell Custom is $3500 >> 2. A frame that weighs one pound less would make me plus my bike weigh >> 0.5% less. I would be 0.5% faster on climbs, exactly the same speed on >> flats, and very slightly slower on descents.. In order to measure these >> things, I would have to do a detailed statistical analysis of Strava data. >> In other words, I would not look for it ,and not looking for it would mean >> I would not find it. >> >> Alternatively, Michael Levan (Lum Gim Fong) might have meant "why not buy >> a Roadeo instead?". The list of "why nots" for a Roadeo would include: >> >> 1. The Leo Roadini was $900, and a Roadeo is $2600. >> 2. A Roadeo is a road race bike. I'm not a road racer, and I don't use >> my Leo Roadini on road racing type rides. I don't do 'club races'. I >> don't do local crits. The extra stability and comfort of a Leo Roadini are >> not detriments (for me). >> 3. A frame that weighs one pound less would make me plus my bike weigh >> 0.5% less. I would be 0.5% faster on climbs, exactly the same speed on >> flats, and very slightly slower on descents.. In order to measure these >> things, I'd have to do a detailed statistical analysis of Strava data. In >> other words, I would not look for it ,and not looking for it would mean I >> would not find it. >> >> I get it that ML(LGF) for years dwelled on flexy tubing bikes, presumably >> from reading Jan Heine stuff. Jan Heine knows that the weight of the bike >> doesn't matter. Jan Heine prefers the feel of a flexier bike, but >> acknowledges that is an extremely nuanced, very subtle feeling. The fact >> that ML(LGF) claims dramatic differences in 'feel' and large (~10%) >> differences in speed tells me that ML(LGF) wants his Roadeo to be a LOT >> faster, and so it is. If you want your newest, lightest, raciest bike to >> be the best thing ever, you can easily convince yourself it is true. >> Personally, I want to have a huge stable of bikes. I want them to all be >> awesome in their own way. I want them all to be fun to ride and I want to >> enjoy all of them, and so I do. Human beings can convince themselves of all >> sorts of things, including me. I'm anticipating the day when ML(LGF) finds >> a used STANDARD DIAMETER 7/4/7 bike and finds that is EVEN BETTER than his >> Roadeo. >> >> There are things about the Roadeo that are distinctly desirable, and if >> you want one, and can afford one, you should buy one and try to enjoy it. I >> have no doubt in my mind that if I buy a Roadeo down the road I will enjoy >> it. There is no chance whatsoever that I'll be 10% faster on it. There are >> things that are distinctly desirable about the Leo Roadini, and if you want >> one and can afford one, you should buy one and try to enjoy it. If you are >> incapable of enjoying a Leo Roadini, that says something about you, not the >> bike. Don't get me wrong. There are objectively bad bikes out there. The >> Leo Roadini is not one of them. The Roadeo is a great bike also. >> Different, but also great. I'm happy for ML(LGF) that he found a used >> Roadeo at a price he wanted to pay. I'm glad he enthusiastically likes it. >> It bums me out that he needs to insist that all his previous Rivendells >> 'fought him on hills'. I think his other bikes are also great and deserve >> to be enjoyed. If he can no longer enjoy them, I hope he moves them to >> people who can. >> >> Bill 'defender of all bikes' Lindsay >> El Cerrito CA >> >> On Sunday, November 4, 2018 at 3:22:32 PM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote: >>> >>> You can have fit, good handling, and a good build on a 6/4/6 Rivendell, >>> too. Why not? >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
