I tried to refrain from posting about this but I have to. A custom anything is a tremendous amount of work no matter what it is, and in my experience none of the parties involved except the material supplier is charging what they should to properly compensate themselves. Customers forget how quickly the hours add up on any little project. This is aside from how long it took the people involved to learn their craft. If one wants to have customers, you cannot charge enough to cover all of your time, even if the project goes perfectly. Those of us who do custom work do it because we love what we’re doing, not because it’s lucrative.
> On Mar 2, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Jay Lonner <jay.lon...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I agree that $4k is a bargain for a custom bike, especially if your intended > use includes commuting/utility cycling. Good luck owning and operating a car > for that price. > > The reason my next bike won’t be a Riv is a variation of your option E - I’m > interested in heretical technologies. I’d like to experiment with a Rohloff > drivetrain, Gates belt drive, and disc brakes, all of which offer potentially > compelling advantages in my soggy part of the world. I dig my Hunqapillar, > but I keep a browser tab open on the Surly Ogre... > > Jay Lonner > Bellingham, WA > > Sent from my Atari 400 > >> On Mar 2, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Kieran >> >> You didn't state an opinion about Rivendell's custom prices. You only >> stated that $3300 is a high price for a rejected custom. I agree with that >> opinion wholeheartedly. In my opinion, at least half of the value of a >> custom is that it is custom. The freedom to make something that has never >> been made before. That freedom is worth $2000 to me, and in my opinion, the >> moment that custom is actually built, that $2000 worth of freedom is >> absolutely gone. It's been spent. In other words, it is no longer custom. >> I would never pay a penny more than half-price on a rejected custom. Used >> stock bikes retain their value in re-sale, because they are stock. >> >> Your post here implies that you have an opinion about the price of Rivendell >> customs, and I'll go out on a limb and guess that your opinion is that the >> price is too high. The nuance, and the place where I think interesting >> discussion happens, is why people think $4000 is too high a price. I can >> imagine a bunch of different reasons why: >> >> A. $4000 is too much for me to spend on a bike frame. I can't afford it, >> and if I could, I would be too worried about protecting it to enjoy it >> B. $4000 is a rip-off. Rivendell is price gouging. Riv is skimming way too >> much profit on a frame that's nowhere near that expensive to build >> C. $4000 is too high because builder X will build whatever I request for >> $2500 and so it's just as good a bike for $1500 less >> D. $4000 is too high because stock Riv Z is so good and so much more >> affordable >> >> I totally understand and empathize with A. I would disagree vehemently with >> B. I think there's a really useful discussion to be had around C. I >> wholeheartedly endorse D, but comprehend that many retro-minded Riv devotees >> want the more conventional Rivendell forms (aka short chainstays). >> >> My main reason for not buying a custom may be E: I'm way too opinionated to >> completely surrender the design process to Grant. Grant has talked me out >> of a custom at least twice over the years. My stock Rivs are spectacular, >> partially because I ride Grant's frame size :). >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> >> On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 9:48:29 AM UTC-8, Kieran J wrote: >> In hindsight, my comments sound judge-y and insensitive. That was not my >> intent; I don't know anything about the original buyer of this custom so I >> shouldn't go there. >> My opinion of Riv's custom prices remains the same though. >> >> KJ >> >> >> On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 2:06:07 PM UTC-8, Mark Roland wrote: >> "There's something perversely decadent about a Riv shop person being able to >> afford something like this" >> >> On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 12:41:27 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote: >> >> 2. I'm not sure where employee pricing crept into this discussion. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/be599c92-320b-4505-ba05-12261553dbc7%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/be599c92-320b-4505-ba05-12261553dbc7%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/E40C540B-551B-400D-A719-7C8ED30AF5CD%40gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/E40C540B-551B-400D-A719-7C8ED30AF5CD%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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