You are missing the other half of the argument. There is a reason virtually every step through out there runs the gamut from beefy to tank like: the design of a step through frame does not lend itself to being created from a lightweight tube set. I don't think many frame builders would be eager to take it on, even for a relatively lighter rider, though one who most definitely puts out power above her weight class, another consideration. I don't think Rivendell would do it as a custom. I could of course be wrong. One last time, there is a reason the basic safety bicycle ended up as a diamond frame, ie, two triangles. Go away from that and you need to start beefing up your tubing. This is why you see the designs of the true step throughs above with one or two tubes connecting the two tubes running from head tube to seat tube. A mixte is essentially the same physical structure as a diamond with a very sloped top tube. Which is why you can't step through it. Make it low enough to step through, and you lose the remaining strength of the triangle and need to compensate somewhere else.
Sure, Rivendells get criticized by lots of people for being "overbuilt." Many (even/especially overweight men) would say that even of Leah's Platypus. But of all the bikes in the Riv lineup to attempt to put on a diet, the Clem L is not the one to pick. *Vive la difference.* On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 2:36:08 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: > *Disclaimer: I promised myself I wouldn't come back to this thread and get > into a debate about lightness but I'm Joe Bernard, world reknown for not > knowing when to shut up! So here goes.. > > In this very specific case of a very light and strong rider who's already > got that motor in tip-top shape, the weight of the frame is going to > matter. Swapping out to custom wheels and better (and tubeless) tires isn't > in the offing because that's already been done to these bikes. Does this > mean Riv production frames are too heavy? Of course not, it just means > they're built to a standard the average buyer can ride without snapping in > half. Which brings us to the Custom Clem idea, which - this is the part > where I start repeating myself and drive y'all crazy - I wouldn't approach > as "Hey can you make me a superlight frame?" It's simply a matter of having > a frame designed around the rider's height and weight, plus expected level > of poundage to be carried in bags. This is how my bike was built and while > it's certainly not a superlight as I'm not a superlight rider, it's lighter > than any production Riv I've ever owned (and I've owned a bunch). Noticably > out of the box and noticably built up and ridden. > > As the old adage goes, less weight costs more money. A custom frame is > more expensive than a production frame and one of the luxuries you pay for > is it can be built to a max weight limit I and most of the dudes in this > thread probably couldn't ride. Because it's custom and not for us! I think > this bike would be spectacular. > > Joe "for the love of Pete is he still talking?" Bernard > > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 8:36:22 AM UTC-8 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, > CA wrote: > >> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 7:50:25 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >> wrote: >> >>> … >>> >> So, what about bike weight? I spent 2020 trying to log 3,000 miles, and >>> nearly all of those miles were on my big, blue Clementine. I bought new >>> wheels and a tubeless tire set up and it noticeably lightened the bike, and >>> it helped with the hills. But even so, I was never fast; I gave up trying >>> to chase roadies up Killer Hill because I never caught them. When my >>> boys were little and we began to bike to their new school (Killer Hill >>> stood between it and us) I got my littler son, a 1st grader, a new bike >>> with gears. A Giant in neon yellow. He was demoralized by that hill every >>> day, while my 4th grade son had no trouble. One day I realized that the 24 >>> inch Specialized was lighter than the 20 inch Giant. Ugh. I had put no >>> thought into the weight of the bike - possibly because I was influenced >>> here. That day, I bought an Islabike and my little boy danced up the hill >>> and beat us all from that day forward. >>> >>> When the Platy came, magically, I was quick. I catch and pass men on >>> road bikes all the time now, Bosco bars and all. My bike feels too easy to >>> pedal even in its hardest gear. It’s not a workout for me, even up Killer >>> Hill. It’s easy and it’s fun. … >>> >> >> You can't argue against physics. A couple of pound here or there won't >> really make a big difference on most rides, especially if you're just on a >> bike ride. A full water bottle is about 1.5 pounds, for example, and I >> can't usually tell if my two water bottles are full or empty on rides (I >> have to shake them). Thus, your comment about suddenly being able to catch >> and pass men on road bikes because you're on a Platypus can't really be >> supported by physics, if indeed weight is the only differentiator. I also >> suspect you may be severely underestimating the concept of placebos and >> that extra 100 watts a new bike can bring. :) >> >> I'm fortunate enough to have too many bikes, from lightweight, mostly >> carbon+titanium wonders that'll probably float away with a strong breeze, >> to my stout Atlantis that weighs more than my Wilbury (here's the mixte >> reference for relevance!) because it has front-rear racks, full stainless >> fenders, basket, dynamo lights, and a heavy Abus lock on it full-time. >> Anyway, on longish climbs (e.g., Kings Mountain or Old La Honda, which >> averages almost 8% for 3-4 miles), when I'm just tooling along with friends >> and not trying to make PR, I can't tell the difference between my >> lightweight wonder and my moderately heavy 24lb randonneur (Riv custom, >> also with fenders, dynamo light, front rack, etc), based on a clock; that's >> almost a 10 lb "penalty" I can't feel if I'm not actively looking for it. >> Come to think of it, on leisure rides, I've intentionally taken my >> super-duty Atlantis because it can carry all sorts of goodies for the >> post-ride snacking, and I wasn't penalized or regretful of the decision. >> >> What I have found to really impact the "feel" of the bike, in terms of >> responsiveness and subjective "lightness", is the tire. On the same exact >> bikes, having supple, better rolling tires such as the Rene Herse tires can >> make a night-day difference, compared to lesser tires such as the Schwalbe >> Kojak or even the evergreen Pasela. I haven't really measured the objective >> differences with a stopwatch, but I wouldn't ride those tires on fun rides, >> just from the feel alone. In fact, I've gone so far as to switch over all >> my bikes to nice rolling tires, predominantly RH tires, Pari-Motos, Hetre >> Extra Leger, Challenge Paris-Roubaix, and ThunderBurts, much to my wallet's >> "amusement". I've also managed to convince skeptical friends to try, and >> they too found that perhaps buying tires at stupid prices isn't such a >> crazy idea after all. >> >> Another factor I've been trying to reconcile is what Jan Heine refers to >> as "planing". I'm not sure I accept his explanation fully, but I have bikes >> that ride noticeably better than others, and 1. it has almost nothing to do >> with its weight (the aforementioned Riv custom randonneur is fantastically >> "lively"), and 2. it is only somewhat correlated to its expected frame >> flexibility (my flexiest bike isn't the best to ride). Again, no stopwatch >> verification, so I'm taking from subjective feel. >> >> I do understand the need to have a light bike for portage though. A >> friend of small stature often complains about having to lug her bike up >> stairs, but the activity of cycling isn't lugging bicycles up and down >> stairs (or onto or off bike racks). >> >> Anyway, just my $0.02. Try the nicer tires. Maybe you'll beat the men on >> road bikes up Killer Hill just the same. And even expensive Rene Herse >> tires are cheaper than a new custom frame+fork (and if you don't like the >> tires, you can sell it slightly used for not much loss). >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ac1c1f5d-ced6-4b80-9311-8abd5d110450n%40googlegroups.com.
