Garth made a wordy comment about being content and happy with your bike the way it is. Leah spoke on behalf of several Clem-upgraders that making their Clem lighter made a difference they could feel. The feeling that Leah described was "heavy and slow", and the upgrades made the target Clems less heavy and slow and that was perceived as a positive.
I have a number of thoughts on this (as usual) I don't understand Garth's writing style and vernacular, but I think he is recommending that people try to enjoy a bike for what it is, rather than fretting about what it isn't. I personally follow that recommendation. Since it's only a recommendation, of course everybody is free to be that way or not be that way. The notion that the Clem is objectively 'heavy and slow' doesn't mean anything to me. I have a huge stable of bikes (currently 18 that I am actively using). The very lightest one is about 18 pounds, and the heaviest one is 32 pounds unloaded and when loaded can be over 70 pounds. For each of them, I push the pedals as hard as I feel like pushing the pedals, in the gear I feel like riding. Each machine goes as fast as it goes when I pedal that hard. Every one of my bikes goes faster when I pedal harder, and goes slower when I pedal easier, and they are all DIALED. I don't comprehend this "heavy and slow" as a problem. My heaviest bike is my Atlantis. It is objectively heavier than my Roadeo. When I pedal with the same input power, I travel objectively at a lower velocity on the Atlantis than I travel on the Roadeo. So, the Atlantis is "heavier" and it is "slower" than my Roadeo, but it is not "heavy and slow" in some objectively negative sense. The Atlantis is perfect at being the machine that it is. It's a perfect build, executed around a very good build concept. I could come up with a different build concept, and call it an "ultralight Atlantis" and execute an Atlantis build that is 2 pounds lighter. That bike would be awesome, too. It would be a different machine from my current Atlantis. It would be faster and lighter, but it would not be better. It would only be different. Put another way: people are asserting that 1 or 2 pounds makes a big difference in the enjoyability of a bike. If that were universally true, then your light and fast bike would be ruined by carrying a picnic lunch. For me that's not true. There's a great beer shop on the hill to my house. If I buy a six pack and put it in my basket, my 'bike' is 7 pounds heavier. I'm not all of a sudden mad that my bike is heavy and slow, I'm happy that I'm taking a cold six-pack up the hill on my perfect bike! :) If 7 pounds of cargo doesn't ruin a bike, then dropping 2 pounds off a bike shouldn't convert a bike from "bad" to "good". 2 pounds lighter is an objective measurement. Better or worse is subjective. My Atlantis is "heavy" unloaded, and is "even heavier" with 10 pounds of cargo. My heavy Atlantis is great in both states. Now don't get me wrong, when I'm planning a build, and executing that build, every single thing that I pull together I always want that bit to be as light in weight as is practical and appropriate. Lighter is ALWAYS better, all else being totally equal. For example, I would NEVER build a 36 spoke rear wheel for myself. 32 is plenty for everything I've ever done and ever will do on a bicycle. 36 spokes costs more (more spokes), is heavier, and would be equivalently reliable for me as 32 spokes (100% perfectly reliable). I always use double butted spokes which are objectively lighter, objectively more reliable than straight gauge, and cost a tiny bit more. I'm definitely more of a weight weenie than Grant. I'm probably on-par with Jan. I know that lighter is always better, but I also know that in terms of measurable speed, a couple pounds lighter is almost immeasurable. How a cyclist feels about their lighter bike is real, but it's all in that cyclist. It's subjective. Another piece that has less to do with objectively measurable weight is the act of making a bike your own. Call that agency. Every bike in my stable was meticulously curated by me. I'm happy with the execution, and the weight is the weight. I have agency over my builds and my builds are "mine". If I were to buy an off-the-peg bike, I'm certain that step 1 would be to switch out the things I want to switch out, which may be for weight and may be for fit or function. That act, personalizing a machine for yourself away from stock, is a form of agency that I think is 100% positive. If you have a stock Clem and want to change it to make yourself happy and to mark your territory, absolutely do that! Call it an "upgrade". If it makes the bike weigh less on the scale, fine. If it enables you feel like you enjoy riding it more, that's sensational. Personalizing your bike could be as simple as putting stickers on it. These are my thoughts on the matter. All are opinions. I think everybody should do anything they want to do to their bike to help themself enjoy it more. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 4:24:02 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote: > Garth’s is a nice thought, and instructive in the right circumstances, but > having been in Joyce’s shoes, I don’t think it applies here. (No offense to > Garth, who is very kind.) I know of 4 women (including myself in the group) > who started with Clems and added Platys. 3 of the 4 of us have lamented the > heaviness of the Clems (Emily Guise - I can’t remember if you ever said so > about your Clem, but you DID say you felt the Platy was spritely in > comparison when you last posted here about it - so I might even say all > FOUR of us have felt the Clem is heavy/slow). I made some serious changes > to my Clem and I find it markedly improved: > 1. Lightweight wheels (Pacenti Brevets, I think?) > 2. Gravel King slicks > 3. Aluminum Bosco bars > 4. Removal of front rack and basket, leaving the rear Clem rack. > > I didn’t get a before and after weight of my bike, but it FEELS lighter > when I ride it, and I don’t think it’s a placebo effect. But I do think if > a bicycle is designed for a 250 pound person to ride it, and someone half > that weight is riding it, it’s gonna feel heavy to her. Some would blame > the engine, but I don’t see that being fair here. If I lose weight (I’m a > healthy weight and am fit, so I won’t be doing that) I don’t think the Clem > becomes easier to pedal. Tiny little JL (who reads this board but doesn’t > post) is diminutive; I’m not sure she’s 100lbs. Lightweight parts matter > for her. Cut weight where you can; it adds up! Even if it’s a half a pound > here and a half a pound there, I can tell. > > I was really frustrated with the clunkiness of my Clem, magnified after > the Platy’s arrival. But I removed that front rack and basket and that made > the bike so much better, and I’m glad I kept it. I love it all over again, > and it has its place. It’s not a Platy, it’s a Clem, and both are gems. > Leah > > PS Joyce, I put tubes back in my tires because I didn’t want to mess with > sealant for the little time I was spending on the Clem compared to the > Platy. But the system is compatible with either! > > On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 2:47:14 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote: > >> Oh, sounds like a case of compar-itis ..... seeing what someone else >> says, has or does..... then question yourself and wonder why you don't >> measure up to the unrealistic image it it portrays. Each and every ride and >> rider is perfect as-is. Don't believe me ? Can anyone change the present >> for being present that it is ? Can one "go back" or forward and change the >> present from being present while being present, *the very same Presence*? >> Can one break it, repair it, upgrade it, lose it, gain it or in any way >> alter it ? Can one escape themselves ? Of course not. So THIS-HERE must >> be absolutely wondrous ..... utterly perfect.There's no proving IT ..... >> rather IT is proving You ! Enjoy the ride .... always ! A-LIVE-NESS is >> the Ride .... and it's YOU !!! >> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 4:30:28 PM UTC-4 Paul Choi wrote: >> >>> So if you compare the Alex 650b DM24 (695g) rim to an Atlas (590g), you >>> would save 3.7 ounces per wheel. Would that really make any difference to >>> the riding someone does on a Clem? >>> Maybe for the WW that would be a big improvement? >>> >>> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 11:19:43 AM UTC-7 Collin A wrote: >>> >>>> As a former Clem owner, I understand the benefit of getting a lighter >>>> set of wheels on there. I personally ended up with cliffhangers and some >>>> bitex/SON hubs on mine, but I intended the bike to be more MTB with 2.2" >>>> tires on there for rougher stuff and fully loaded rides. This wheelset now >>>> lives on my Joe Appaloosa and is probably a bit overkill, but serves its >>>> purpose when I take it on accidental DH MTB trails in Salt Lake City. >>>> [image: PXL_20210817_231340065.jpg] >>>> >>>> From your description, it sounds like those are the original wheels >>>> that came with the complete clems a few years ago. They would be the Alex >>>> DM24 rims that weigh probably close to 750g each. >>>> >>>> As for recs, based on your riding description, maybe a lighter setup >>>> with Velocity Quill or Pacenti Brevets might work (~400g-ish for each)? I >>>> actually ended up re-lacing the original clem wheels with the pacenti >>>> brevet (didn't need new spokes, though they were maybe 1mm short, so I >>>> ended up getting new spokes later but also because she wanted the rainbow >>>> nipples still and its best not to reuse the alu ones...) and put them on >>>> my >>>> partner's AHH. Much lighter and spin up easier too and works great for >>>> 40mm+ tires. Further weight reductions could be had in hubs (the deores >>>> are >>>> great though), but they don't impact rolling weight nearly as much. >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> Collin in Firemento >>>> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 10:24:46 AM UTC-7 JAS wrote: >>>> >>>>> After reading Leah's comments about upgrading her Clem with lighter >>>>> wheels and other parts, I'd like to do the same for my dark green Clem. >>>>> I >>>>> use it for rural road riding when I'm not on my Platy, gravel trails, and >>>>> hauling groceries. It's got a rear rack and will have SKS fenders when I >>>>> get around to installing them. I will also replace the original Bosco >>>>> with >>>>> the aluminum version. >>>>> >>>>> I changed the tires from those horrible original Kendas to Big Bens >>>>> and removed the front rack and basket which did wonders for handling. >>>>> Since I got it from Craigslist a few years ago I don't know much about >>>>> the >>>>> original wheels. They have multi-colored spoke nipples and no >>>>> identifying >>>>> labels. The original owner bought it from a bike shop in Madison, WI. >>>>> >>>>> Any advice is welcome on what wheels to get or other upgrades I could >>>>> make. I don't want to go tubeless. Clem is 52cm with 650b wheels. >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fec4687-67ba-4c45-8364-2cb4f6970e9dn%40googlegroups.com.
