Sachs designed the lugs used on the earliest models. He didn’t make them or any frames. Waterford was the earliest vendor and as others have noted, a few other small builders have helped over the years, Nobilette most recently. Toyo did several frame models for a period of about 5 years, and Panasonic had one too. Panasonic and Urema did painting in Japan. Maxway in Taiwan has been a major supplier of late.
Sent from my iPad > On Nov 28, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Eric Daume <ericda...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I’ve never heard that they used Sachs as a builder. Hasn’t he always had a > long waiting list? > > I think they’ve used a Sachs fork crown or lugs, or maybe he used theirs. > >> On Sunday, November 28, 2021, Ryan <ryter...@mts.net> wrote: >> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus) and >> tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from Waterford and >> working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 and they >> added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road delivered 2001 >> was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , one of >> them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom builder >> for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and Nobilette started. >> 2005 or so? >> >>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote: >>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and all >>> this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, Keith, >>> and Joel! I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this thing. >>> >>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, prototype, >>> and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking color-coding. >>> It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back to Waterford >>> a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders sprinkled in of >>> course. Should be a neat effect. It's worthwhile adding the start of the >>> official custom program, I expect, as well. >>> >>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice >>> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the >>> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D >>> >>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line >>>> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early >>>> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's >>>> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a >>>> custom is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase >>>> time. >>>> >>>> Joe Bernard >>>> >>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>> Nice work, Jason! >>>>> >>>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the >>>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting >>>>> a name added to express it as one of two road frames. >>>>> >>>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only >>>>> ever seen two of them. >>>>> >>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom >>>>>> Allingham's Flickr): Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, >>>>>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many >>>>>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right? And am I >>>>>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when >>>>>> the MIT batch rolled in? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a >>>>>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways >>>>>>> to go before I'm any sort of expert). Of course, my "knowledge" is >>>>>>> limited to what I've found either in the reader or on the website for >>>>>>> the most part, and there's a lot that's not really covered in those >>>>>>> spots. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as >>>>>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah. So then on the '95 >>>>>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain >>>>>>> (Expedition? Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry? From >>>>>>> memory the Road was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused >>>>>>> by that all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I >>>>>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I >>>>>>> welcome (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this >>>>>>> regard. I think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when >>>>>>> models either underwent significant geometry changes or changed >>>>>>> builders (AHH and Atlantis being obvious ones). This might turn into a >>>>>>> full wiki, not sure yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess! >>>>>>> I have webhosting available, just need to sort some stuff out on that >>>>>>> end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote: >>>>>>>> Good effort. I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once. My >>>>>>>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or >>>>>>>> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa. I know >>>>>>>> it was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, >>>>>>>> paying customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and >>>>>>>> Mountains were - with no design input from the buyers and - unlike >>>>>>>> those others - they DID have an actual model name and head badge. I >>>>>>>> don't think I'd consider them insignificant either, as they were the >>>>>>>> experience that led to the current long chainstay, longer top tube >>>>>>>> models and the big swept-back bars like the bosco. Kind of key to >>>>>>>> understanding the whole evolution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote: >>>>>>>>> Nice Jason, and needed. The Road was followed quickly by the Road >>>>>>>>> Standard, I think by '96. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv >>>>>>>>>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via >>>>>>>>>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was >>>>>>>>>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com >>>>>>>>>> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites >>>>>>>>>> today). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of >>>>>>>>>> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can >>>>>>>>>> point out omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of >>>>>>>>>> permutations of some of these models of course - I have pretty >>>>>>>>>> detailed notes about where each model was made (including many which >>>>>>>>>> went through a few shops) in addition to the timeline, which I plan >>>>>>>>>> to include in whatever final form this takes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect! Note: >>>>>>>>>> I left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be >>>>>>>>>> relevant; I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and >>>>>>>>>> Road 55.5 are ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems >>>>>>>>>> to have snuck past my research so far. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4957f13b-b0a0-4941-a22f-0818be8d63ddn%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Sfo4Wj7PYss/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5DYgoDG05oRB8og9T0OzDQd5FY7nmONP1fmXgU_2K1v%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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