Adrianna
Here are my answers to your questions --Question 1: What is your usual distance from pedal center to top of saddle? Saddle Height (SH) is measured from the center of the BB spindle to the top of the saddle along the seat tube. Not to a pedal located to some position in it’s rotation. You can adjust the saddle so there is a slight bend in your leg when your on the saddle and the pedal is at 5 o’clock, but it is NOT Saddle Height. Pedal at 5 o’clock typically puts the crank arm parallel to the seat tube. Grant Peterson has stated Saddle Height is related to PBH by SH = PBH – 10 to 11 cm. a few times in the Rivendell Readers. For example, I’m 5’7”, my PBH is 80.6cm and my SH is 70.5cm (set by someone watching pedal on my bike in a trainer). This difference is 10.1cm, very close to Grant. SO if you your PBH, you can get a good approximation of your SH. A 5’5” person typically uses a 170mm (17cm) crank arm. Even if you used a 165mm arm, the distance is reduced by only 5mm (0.5cm) which is very small change compared to the 87cm distance from saddle to pedal given my 70cm SH and I use a 17cm crank arm. Crank arm length is typically a fine tuning adjustment --Question 2: What is your usual top of saddle (at seat tube centerline) and handlebar heights? BAR HEIGHT is typically referenced to the Top of the Saddle, not to the Ground. Your bars are in 1 of 3 positions: Bars BELOW the Saddle by XXcm Bars EVEN with the Saddle, 0cm difference Bars ABOVE the Saddle by XXcm I keep my bars EVEN with the Saddle to 1cm BELOW the Saddle, depending on my fitness level. I find I am comfortable in the drops and prefer the drops vs the brake hoods. 15 to 20 years ago Rivendell recommended bars even with saddle. Now they say Bars above saddle. I feel my setting (Even to 1cm Below) are within their recommendations. The lower the bars, your muscles are mor effective, but there is more weight is on your hands and your hands can get numb. The higher the bars are, less weight on the hands and you are more upright, but your muscles are less effective If I read you diagram correctly, your bars are 3.5” (9cm) BELOW the Saddle (37” – 33.5”). This is an extremely LOW bar position, typically used by the pros. -Question 3: What is your usual distance from top of saddle (at seat tube centerline) to handlebar center? My distance (Saddle where ST would come through to center of the stem clamp) is 60.4cm on my 88 Voyageur (53.3cm STL, 54cm TTL, 74° STA, 71°HTA, 71cm SH) with Bars EVEN with Saddle and 1 7cm stem length. This along with a drop bar reach of 11.5cm (C-E) puts my back at a 45° or slightly higher position (back angle referenced to the horizontal). This distance plus the Bar REACH results in your back at a certain angle to the horizontal. Long distances result in LOW back angles and mor weight on your arms and hands, Short distances result in HIGH back angles, you are more upright and less weight on arms and hands. 15 to 20 years ago Rivendell recommended a 45° back angle. Now they recommend HIGHER angles, more upright. I am comfortable with 45°, but it’s a personal choice. Additional Info I calculated the distance from Saddle to stem clamp for a 50cm Ramboiulet since it’s STL and TTL matched the Road Standard. The calculation assumes bars EVEN with Saddle and a horizontal TT. Assumed a 69sm Saddle Height for you based on my 71cm and 5’7” height vs your 5’5”, a 7cm stem length and 26” x 32mm tires (radius = 31.6cm). Here are the 50cm Ramboilett geo, the STL was increased 1.9cm due to the 2° upsloping TT, and assuming the geo table is Effective TTL STL 51.9cm, TTL 52cm, STA 72.5°, HTA 71°, BBD 5.5cm, Rake 4.25cm Here are the results Saddle to center of stem clamp, 59.0 cm Trail, 6.4cm & Flop =2.0cm, both match the geo table Front Center, 56.3 cm You will have 1.3cm of Toe Clip Overlap, most early Rivendells do The minimum Saddle to stem distance would be 57.0 by using a 5cm stem (shortest available). Based on this, this frame should fit you but you would need to determine your PBH, Saddle Height and what Saddle to stem clamp distance you need for a good back angle John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ On Saturday, January 29, 2022 at 1:54:07 PM UTC-5 Adrianna T wrote: > Joe was nice enough to help me mock-up the frame. Some notes: > > (I don’t have a bike right now so I don’t actually have the measurements, > but will probably ask a friend to help later) > > “ Here's a photo of the Rivendell mock-up, without bars anyway. > I'm including my quick sketch of the frame layout. > As set up, here are some measurements to ponder: > > From pedal center to top of saddle, inline with seat tube (with crank in > line with seat tube, not as shown): 34" > If that Campagnolo seat post was lowered to the transition point from > elliptical to round (1.5" lower), then the 34" measure would become 32.5" > --Question 1: What is your usual distance from pedal center to top of > saddle? > > As shown, the saddle top is 37" off the floor. The stem (at three fingers > high) is 33.5" off the floor. With the saddle at 32.5" this differential > would be about 35.5"/33.5. Depending on stem extension angle and handlebar > shape there can be a wide range of adjustment of where your hands will rest. > --Question 2: What is your usual top of saddle (at seat tube centerline) > and handlebar heights? > > As shown, from the center of the top of the saddle (where the seat tube > center line intersects it) to the center of the handlebar hole is: 26" > --Question 3: What is your usual distance from top of saddle (at seat tube > centerline) to handlebar center? > > Wheel size is 26"-MTB and bike is shown with 1.25" cross-section tire, > 559x32mm. This gives a 10-3/8" bottom bracket height, which is ample with > clipless pedals. > > Other notes: > --The seat stay bridge is quite close to the tire with these 26x1.25 > tires. This tire size is the absolute maximum that can be used. Fenders > cannot be used front or rear unless smaller tires are used (28mm max). > --Frameset comes with Stronglight aluminum headset and Suntour Superbe Pro > bottom bracket. > > Please let me know how this frame might fit.” > > > > Sent from a tiny device > > On Jan 29, 2022, at 10:27 AM, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch < > rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > Adrianna > > I believe the Road Standard will fit you and if anything the TT may be a > bit short which can be corrected with a longer stem or drop bars with > greater reach. This is based on the following values for: > > Road Standard (RS) 50cm STL and 52cm TTL but the frame angles are not > provided. Let’s assume the frame angle are the same the 50cm > Rambouillet. This is reasonable since as Saturday Mike pointed out the > 50cm Ram and the RS are both 26” wheels and the Ram would be the closest > Rivendell to the Road Standard. Here is a summary of the RS and Ram > geometries > > RS ST 50cm TTL 52cm STA Not Known > HTA Not Know > > Ram ST 50cm TTL 52cm STA > 72.5° HTA 71° > > Me and my bike: I’m 5’7” (close to your 5’5”) and I have a 88 Voyageur > which fits me well with a 7cm stem, 10.4 cm C-C reach drop bars (Rene Herse > Radonneur), and bar center at same height as the saddle. The Voyageur > geometry is: > > 88 Voy ST 21” CT (53.3cm) TTL 54cm STA 74° HTA > 71° > > If we compare my 88 Voy to the 50cm Ram, only the STA is different and > you sit further back on the Ram. The difference is 1.3cm (50 x (cos74 > -cos72.5)). > > This means I would need a 52.7cm TTL on the Ram to have the same fit as I > have on the88 Voy. The Ram has a 52cm TTL, which is less than what I need > and I would probably use a 1cm longer stem (go from a 7cm stem to a 8cm > stem) to obtain the same fit as I have on the 88 Voy. > > So based on this the 50cm Road Standard would fit you with a 6 to 8 cm > stem and drop bar with a 10 to 11 cm reach (C-C). > > 5cm stems are readily available so you have margin if your arms are > shorter than normal. > > Stems are available up to 12 cm, so you will always be able to get > the setm length you need. > > If you used a Nitto Noddle, you would need a 1cm longer stem since > the Noodle reach is about 1cm shorter than the RH Radonneur. > > Hope this helps. > > John Hawrylak > > Woodstown NJ > > On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:45:13 PM UTC-5 Adrianna T wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> I went to see Joe B at the Marin Museum of Bicycling to see if I want the >> Riv Road Standard bike frame. >> >> Details were somewhat unclear and as this group pointed out, it's hard to >> tell size and fit when the bike is not built up. >> >> So further details are posted her (on my personal page): >> >> https://skinnylatte.notion.site/Riv-Bike-e56ddf417ee54e788e3a445eafc46f44 >> >> Joe also called Grant and provided this update: >> >> " After talking with Grant, and trying a few more wheels, it appears the >> frameset is for 26x1.4" wheels (MTB, 559 bead seat size). So tires would be >> 35mm max, 32mm more like it. "Pre-1999 for sure," says Grant." >> >> My main question is: I previously thought this might be *just nice*, now >> I am not so sure. >> >> Anyone see anything interesting about the new information here? I still >> want it very badly of course, and that's maybe why I can't be objective >> about it ;/ >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/SVD3yXN4r6o/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7425b803-e643-42d0-b793-9aa84221b459n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7425b803-e643-42d0-b793-9aa84221b459n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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