Instead of front/back weight distribution, the thing I have noticed that affects handling more than anything is how the rear weight is distributed from bottom to top. If I have too much weight (and/or height) piled on top of the rack itself the handling gets much worse. This is true for all the bikes I've toured with including my Riv. Is that the case with you? Are you placing heavy items directly on top of the rack? 35 pounds is not that much if at least 25 of it is in the panniers. It's easy to check to see if this is the culprate. Do a test ride with your same load but have your rear panniers as full and heavy as possible and put little or nothing on top of the rack itself and see if the ride changes.
Pete On Jun 19, 8:27 am, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for all the advice, suggestions and encouragement. I do find it hard > to believe that a Riv bike would have inferior handling, based on the other > 3 I've owned. I will try moving weight for'ard and see what happens. > > Saddle: I've got the saddle where I like it, about 3 to 31/2" behind the bb. > I just moved it forward a tiny bit yesterday, this for sake of postion, not > weight distribution. I do like a butt-back position, so this may put too > much weight in the rear. > > To answer Bill's question: I noticed the light front end when I first rode > the bike unladen; this at normal cruising speeds on straight flats; and this > evaluation judged in comparison to my other two custom Rivs and my > Motobecane, which have shorter and lower cockpits; somewhat like the feel of > my Monocog when I ride on the tops; the Monocog also having a much longer > and higher cockpit than my 2 customs and the Motobecane, but probably > moderated by the huge and ponderous tires and rims. > > But back to Bill's question: the Sam feels light unladen, especially on the > flats -- sign again of the effect of rear weight bias. When laden as > yesterday, it felt no different on flat and straight routes at cruising > speed: the same slight tendency to wander. It was on the fast downhill > sweeper that I noticed the sketchiness of the handling -- too brief to > analyze, but IIRC, a hesitation and then a sudden small flop in turning. But > it was worst at slow speed up a quite steep hill which combined said rear > load, the efffect of the steep inclination, and my own body position for the > climbing effort, that is, weight back and upright posture. > > All of this indicates moving weight forward might help -- again, starting > with proper rear pannier setup and some weight in the Ostrich. > > Thanks to all for helping me think this through. > > Very, very odd how my old Fuji Royale handled like a pig -- front end > wandering around like an excited dog let out for a walk when I had weight in > the Nitto Boxy Bag, but sweetly stable and demurely controllable with a > heavy load in rear panniers. The SH may be just the opposite. > > Interesting. > > The rack is a (at least to judge by its much lighter and very stiff cousin, > the Fly) a stiff Tubus Logo, but the bags are not the Ortliebs that I intend > to use, but a pair of Axiom grocery panniers borrowed temporarily off the > Motobecane and sitting further back than they need to be. I shall install > and load the Ortliebs as my next step, then after that add 5+ lb to the > Ostrich front bag. Perhaps low riders are in order. > > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Bill Gibson <bill.bgib...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > > Methodically move weight from back to front, if possible try a low rider > > front, even overloading the front to see what the matter is. Keep light > > stuff that you need handy in the handlebar bag. I try to keep all loads > > between the axles and low, so long as it doesn't interfere with pedaling, > > etc. > > > Analysis: How does speed change it? Is it worse at low speed? Does it go > > away at higher speed, or do high speed corrections go too far, or seem > > sluggish? Is it - the flop- more of a low speed lunging left to right when > > the front bag is heavily loaded? Flop has a technical meaning beyond what > > the front feels like in some literature... but the easy thing is to change > > the way the bike is loaded. I'm sure all loads are well secured. > > > I usually adapt to a bike's idiosyncrasies after a few rides... we ride the > > bike, not the other way round, mostly. > > > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 3:56 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com>wrote: > > >> Disappointment. I've owned 3 Riv customs, designed for fast road riding, > >> and all, particularly the second two, have been magnificent in fit, feel > >> and > >> handling, even with rear loads. So I was hugely disappointed to take my SH > >> out for a quick 20 mile shakedown ride with 35 lb or so in the rear (An > >> Ostrich in the front, but lightly loaded). Too much front end vagueness: > >> fast downhill sweeper was uneasy-making, and, coming back up sitting at 5-6 > >> mph, the front end wandered all over the place. > > >> I have the bars about even with the plane between rump and nose of saddle; > >> don't want them higher. > > >> Riv build, so Jack Browns; stiff Tubus Logo rack. The panniers were not > >> optimal, having been borrowed from my (better handling under rear load, > >> actually) '73 Motobecane flexy 531 racing bike and sitting a bit further > >> back than they need to be. > > >> But what can I do to reduce the front end flop? New fork? New bike? > > >> -- > >> Patrick Moore > >> Albuquerque, NM > >> For professional resumes, contact > >> Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscrib...@googlegroups.com> > >> . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >>http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > -- > > Bill Gibson > > Tempe, Arizona, USA > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscrib...@googlegroups.com> > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > Patrick Moore > Albuquerque, NM > For professional resumes, contact > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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