I'm glad you got to the bottom of the issue. It's reassuring to me that the root cause was the freewheel, as that makes for 2 of 2 cases that I've heard of 2x1 drivetrains skipping being resolved by changing out the freewheel. (Eben Weiss ran into the same thing <https://bikesnobnyc.com/2024/09/12/try-try-again/> on his Roaduno.) The fact that you had the issue with a NEW freewheel made me wonder if this was going to turn out to be a different issue, but I don't think anyone was expecting the NEW freewheel to be bad.
Too bad about the 16/19 DOS ENO though, hoping it gets sorted for you. -Dave On Friday, September 27, 2024 at 7:43:53 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: > I took an objective measurement on my questionable, warranty-candidate > 16/19 DOS ENO freewheel. First I removed a known-good 16/19 DOS ENO > freewheel from another wheel. I measured with my 0-1" micrometer the > thickness of the 19T cog on both. > > The known good one measured 0.090" > The questionable one measured 0.100" > Note that these are both intended to take derailleur chains, known as > 3/32" chains. 3/32" is 0.09375". So the known-good one is a hair thinner > than 3/32" and the questionable one is roughly two hairs thicker than > 3/32". That seems to me like an unambiguous manufacturing goof. Hopefully > my retailer (Mike V at Black Mountain Cycles) can convince White Industries > to give me some kind of replacement. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > On Friday, September 27, 2024 at 6:26:48 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: > >> White Industries DOS ENO freewheels have the two cogs machined into a >> single monolithic piece. There's no taking a single ring off and >> reassembling it into some other configuration. See this page: >> https://www.whiteind.com/product/freewheel-outer-gears/ >> >> What I'll try to do is see if White Industries will warranty the 16/19 >> and give me a 16/18 in its place. I'm already going to buy one to replace >> this worn out single 18T. >> >> BL in EC >> On Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 11:11:20 PM UTC-7 [email protected] >> wrote: >> >>> Bill, I'm not familiar with the DOS ENO freewheel and I don't have a >>> Roaduno or other single, but I'm SS curious, and I've read your musings on >>> the system you ran on a Crust LB, where you combined the 16/19 with 35/38 >>> chainrings, and it sounded like a very cool and clever set-up as it >>> eliminated the need for a derailleur or chain tensioner. >>> >>> Is it possible to rebuild your existing freewheel with new rings? Also, >>> since the 16/19 configuration is no longer available, is it possible to >>> (cost, not-withstanding) customize a freewheel, maybe to disassemble a >>> 16/18 and a 17/19 and turn them into a 16/19? >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 10:15:02 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for all the responses offering suggestions. I'm comfortable >>>> with the general approach of debugging complex systems. When a complex >>>> system works, it means ten different subsystems work. When a complex >>>> system does not work, it could be any number of those subsystems not >>>> working. >>>> >>>> Anyway, here's what I did: >>>> >>>> I took "perfect drivetrain" 3x1 Romulus down and put it in the stand >>>> I noted it has the identical PC870 chain as the RoadUno >>>> I removed the 18T White Industries ENO freewheel from the Romulus >>>> I removed the questionable used 18T White Industries ENO freewheel from >>>> the RoadUno rear wheel >>>> I installed questionable ENO freewheel onto the Romulus wheel and rode >>>> it around the block --> bad skipping >>>> I installed the known good ENO freewheel onto the RoadUno and rode it >>>> around the block --> perfecto >>>> I finished up the RoadUno into its 2x1 configuration >>>> I disassembled the "bad" 18T ENO freewheel and will start shopping for >>>> a new drive ring from White Industries >>>> I installed the brand new 16/19 DOS ENO onto the Romulus --> bad >>>> skipping in the stand >>>> I installed a 16T Sturmey Archer freewheel onto the Romulus and rode >>>> that around the block --> perfecto >>>> >>>> So, I had TWO bad White Industries freewheels. The 18T ENO I bought >>>> used, and didn't pay much, and it's just toast. No problem I'll buy a new >>>> drive ring for it and it'll be good as new. It's a good opportunity to >>>> buy >>>> a different tooth-count. The 16/19 was one I bought new from White >>>> Industries, and it was the LAST 16/19 they ever sold. I suspect it was a >>>> drive ring they had laying around and it's actually out of spec with >>>> THICKER teeth than normal so a derailleur chain doesn't fit great on it. >>>> It has other manufacturing glitches on it. Maybe I can get them to give >>>> me a 16/18 DOS ENO drive ring on warranty. I'll do some measurements >>>> first >>>> and decide how to proceed. Either way, weird, but my bikes are all sound. >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill Lindsay >>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>> >>>> On Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 3:17:34 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>> >>>>> My first freewheel was a brand-new DOS ENO 16/19 and that was super >>>>> bad in the stand with respect to wanting to climb up off the teeth. >>>>> >>>>> I've got lots of freewheels to experiment with, so that'll be on the >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 2:57:36 PM UTC-7 Dan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you been reading Bike Snob? He had the same skipping issue, and >>>>>> it boiled down to a worn freewheel. It went away when the freewheel was >>>>>> replaced. >>>>>> On Friday 27 September 2024 at 04:24:29 UTC+9:30 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> My first instantiation of my 58cm RoadUno was as a 14-speed, as >>>>>>> immortalized in Will's email update. I used my wheel set which has a >>>>>>> customized 120mm O.L.D. cassette hub which fits 7 cogs from a 9 speed >>>>>>> cassette, updated with 10-speed spacers on what was traditionally a >>>>>>> 5-speed >>>>>>> spaced rear hub. Naturally we call it 7of9with10on5. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had it set up that way for a Mount Diablo Summit, and having done >>>>>>> that, I wanted to reconfigure it with the stock wheels for normal city >>>>>>> use. >>>>>>> I put the stock Saint Jump wheels on there, with a White Industries >>>>>>> freewheel, using my Suntour rear derailleur as a tensioner. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pics prove it: >>>>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/54022678302/in/dateposted/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Problem was that in the stand, the chain was wanting to rise off the >>>>>>> cog on my brand new DOS ENO freewheel. It was worse on the 19 than the >>>>>>> 16, >>>>>>> but clearly it wanted to rise off on both of them just pedaling. >>>>>>> Weird. I >>>>>>> attributed it in part to the goopy factory lube on a brand-new SRAM 870 >>>>>>> chain, and lubed it up and went to bed. In the morning, I tried it out >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the stand again and it was still riding up the cog. I went into my >>>>>>> freewheel box and found a USED White Industries single freewheel, 18T, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> fired that on. In the stand, that was perfecto, and that's what is in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> photograph linked above. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I rode down the hill that night to the local family grocery store >>>>>>> for cilantro and few mushrooms for a soup. Turning back up the hill, >>>>>>> DISASTER. Under load, the same riding up and skipping was happening. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> took the most shallow slope back up the 400ft hill to my house, and put >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> bike up in the stand. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I returned the 10-speed spaced chain on there, that I had been using >>>>>>> with my 7of9with10on5 configuration, and rode that around the block. >>>>>>> Same >>>>>>> skipping under load. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I called it a failure and put the 7speed rear wheel back on, which >>>>>>> is still perfecto. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My top hypothesis is that in a tensioner configuration, the system >>>>>>> wants more tension from the tensioner than my 35 year old Suntour RD is >>>>>>> providing. I may experiment with shortening the chain to the minimum >>>>>>> length for the two-speed configuration. Some Suntour Rear Derailleurs >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> two different holes for the spring, so one can effectively make the >>>>>>> spring >>>>>>> a little stronger. That would be experiment #2. Finally, I may borrow >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Paul Melvin from my 3x1 Romulus, to see if that's a far better >>>>>>> tensioner. >>>>>>> That Romulus 3x1 drivetrain has been perfect. For now it's a two >>>>>>> speed, >>>>>>> but it is running on the 18T cog of a 7sp cassette. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe this is all just the universe telling me to buy a purple >>>>>>> anodized Melvin? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill Lindsay >>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cb6d6057-0a69-49dd-bec0-016e9b38ea7fn%40googlegroups.com.
