David (AppaLanta). I sent you a PM to your email. I hope you saw that. Thanks so much for the insight.
On Wednesday, November 5, 2025 at 10:56:57 AM UTC-5 AppaLanta wrote: > Confirming that the Appaloosa pictured in the mash-up above is a 2024 > model (it's mine). It is a 57. So the geo is 70 HT, 71.5 ST, etc... chart > is attached. After riding for a year, a would add a few observations. > Overall I love it. The ride is super smooth and not twitchy, I can feel the > frame soak up the bigger bumps when the 48mm tires don't do it already. It > is long-steering, meaning I kind of lean into turns rather than turn into > them. It is a do-all, sturdy and stately. My only question is whether the > tubing and overall set-up is too stout for me. It has Cliffhangers and > tubes, a couple of racks, and a Choco-moose bar (which I love)... and with > a front Acorn and at least one rear panier when commuting for the day, it > is a big rig. Sometimes I wonder about lighter Charlie frame and wheel > set-up... a guy has to dream. > On Wednesday, November 5, 2025 at 9:45:24 AM UTC-5 J wrote: > >> Analog Cycles has a size 60cm Appaloosa with some choice parts on sale >> for $3981 down from $5059 >> https://analogcycles.com/products/rivendell-joe-appaloosa-demo-60cm-sergios-green? >> >> <https://analogcycles.com/products/rivendell-joe-appaloosa-demo-60cm-sergios-green?_pos=5&_sid=01eb4b2ef&_ss=r> >> I think you'll have to reach out to them using this doc >> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XaZno3uWcuIc7lNVYtQimxgbz6afF_BGNnsL-S9Inr0/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0 >> >> On Wednesday, November 5, 2025 at 8:41:33 AM UTC-5 Mike Gillespie wrote: >> >>> Last spring I sold my 1st generation Appaloosa to purchase a 2025 >>> Atlantis. The older Appaloosa had an annoying toe clip overlap, which >>> didn’t work well with larger tires and fenders. The ride on the Atlantis >>> was like a revelation to me! Not only was the toe clip overlap gone, but >>> the ride seemed vastly smoother (really hard to describe). The most >>> significant difference in the two bikes was the change in head tube angle >>> from 72° to 70°. The change was so significant that it perked my interest >>> in adding a more roadie ride that replicates the smoothness of the >>> Atlantis. From the geometry charts, the only other model offering this >>> geometry is the Charlie. Conveniently, another round of Charlies are now >>> available and I’ll be further investigating this experiment in the next few >>> months. So, call me a convert to the newer Rivendell geometry! It’s been >>> something I’ve been slow to embrace since all my other bikes (traditional >>> Rivendells, et.al.), seemed perfect already. The new Charlie was shipped >>> out yesterday, so the wait will be over soon. >>> Mike >>> >>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2025 at 2:22:07 AM UTC-8 Dan wrote: >>> >>>> Aha, clearly my sleuthing wasn't enough! You're right. >>>> Nevertheless I think your point is spot on about the Charlie and >>>> Appaloosa being similar geometrically. >>>> If only I could ride both... >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, 5 November 2025 at 15:31:48 UTC+10:30 Mike in BK wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Dan! Thanks for checking it out. That is a 70 degree HT Appaloosa >>>>> in Sergio Green with the second set of hour glass rack mounts on the fork >>>>> and the DT bosses. The angles don't match up because the pictures are >>>>> probably from different points of view. I mashed a couple of pictures >>>>> found >>>>> online to see if the step over Charlie offered a noticeable amount >>>>> clearance for when one falls on to the top tube. A very unscientific >>>>> methodology, lol! >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 4, 2025 at 3:52:25 PM UTC-5 Dan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Great comparison! >>>>>> For what it’s worth I think you have there a pre-2024 Appaloosa with >>>>>> its 72-degree head tube angle. The difference in front wheel offset to >>>>>> the >>>>>> Charlie (with its slacker head tube angle) is noticeable. >>>>>> >>>>>> And yes, with its 50mm tyre clearance I can’t help but feel that the >>>>>> Hillborne is now similar on paper to the earlier Atlanti and hence worth >>>>>> looking at for people pining over those frames! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, 4 November 2025 at 12:36:52 UTC+10:30 Mike in BK wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Very helpful, Al. Thanks! If you look on Bike Insights and compare >>>>>>> the 2017 (May) geometry of the first Atlantis MIT frames it's amazing >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> the 61cm Atlantis is so close to the current 57cm Hillborne geometry, >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> with more slope to the top tube for the Hillborne. The Hillborne >>>>>>> definitely >>>>>>> is an all-rounder and the Atlantis and Appaloosa moved toward heavy >>>>>>> hauling >>>>>>> or fat tire trail bike. The Appaloosa has lingered in my mind for so >>>>>>> long >>>>>>> because I was intrigued when Grant made the Charlie Gallop. On paper >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> looks like an Atlantis or Appaloosa, including a 70 degree head tube >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> extremely long chainstays, yet it's a lighter weight, lighter duty, >>>>>>> road >>>>>>> bike. It's so damn funky I can't imagine shelling out $1750 without >>>>>>> having >>>>>>> ridden one, and it isn't for trails. I just figured that this must be a >>>>>>> geometry Grant thinks is the path forward for us who have decided to >>>>>>> commit >>>>>>> to sweptback bars. Check this Charlie - Joe composite below (sorry, I >>>>>>> meant >>>>>>> to line up the bottom brackets, but you see the similarities). >>>>>>> [image: bikes-mm.jpg] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, November 3, 2025 at 4:34:00 PM UTC-5 Al wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've owned both. I currently own an Appaloosa (2023 production >>>>>>>> run), I sold my Hillborne (2017) to make the switch. There is more of >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> Cadillac-esque ride to the Appaloosa. The first time I rode it my >>>>>>>> brother-in-law and I took it out and kept commenting on how we'd never >>>>>>>> ridden a bike that felt so smooth and stable. The longer chain stays >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> geometry do give it that unique riding experience that so many people >>>>>>>> talk >>>>>>>> about. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I made the switch for a variety of reasons (fit bigger tires, >>>>>>>> longer wheelbase ride, be able to carry more weight comfortably). All >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> being said, there are things I miss about the Sam and I think it might >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> more sense for the riding you're describing. The Sam is lighter and >>>>>>>> accelerates faster, it's also more responsive and 'springy'. For >>>>>>>> context, I >>>>>>>> used the Sam as a daily commuter in Seattle, grocery hauler, light >>>>>>>> trail >>>>>>>> shredder, and loaded multi-day tourer/bikecamper. It held up to all of >>>>>>>> those uses very well. The Sam is a very fun bike and I think it's as >>>>>>>> close >>>>>>>> to an all around bike as Rivendell makes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hopefully I didn't make you more confused. Like others have said >>>>>>>> they are both great bikes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Al >>>>>>>> Grand Rapids >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, November 3, 2025 at 3:44:33 PM UTC-5 Mike in BK wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks all. Just the kind of insight I needed. Not having the >>>>>>>>> opportunity to test either out makes it tough to decide. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 1, 2025 at 6:19:46 PM UTC-4 [email protected] >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had the same thoughts as you on the Appaloosa. I started with >>>>>>>>>> a Sam before they were cantilever braked. At the time, I was able >>>>>>>>>> to test >>>>>>>>>> ride both the Sam and the Joe since I'm local to East Bay. They >>>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>> similar, but the Sam definitely felt more road like and more >>>>>>>>>> responsive in >>>>>>>>>> that way. Being more of a road rider then, I decided to get the >>>>>>>>>> Sam. It >>>>>>>>>> was a great bike but then my riding changed and I wanted something >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> could handle more rough trails and heavier touring but still feel >>>>>>>>>> good on >>>>>>>>>> the road. So I went back to the Joe and I couldn't be happier. I'm >>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>> equal parts road, dirt, and touring and it's the perfect bike for >>>>>>>>>> all that. >>>>>>>>>> I do think it's the closest to the bike for everything if you're >>>>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>>>> to compromise some on the outside edges of the spectrum. For >>>>>>>>>> example, Joe >>>>>>>>>> feels great on the road if I use drop bars and stay on flat or light >>>>>>>>>> hills >>>>>>>>>> and descending. It's not a great climbing bike though. On the >>>>>>>>>> other end, >>>>>>>>>> it's good on most trails except for super technical, downhill type >>>>>>>>>> stuff >>>>>>>>>> which is fine for me because I have no business on those trails. >>>>>>>>>> And >>>>>>>>>> touring it is a dream, no complaints. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So I'd suggest you just really look carefully at the type of >>>>>>>>>> riding you'll do and then make the decision based on that. They are >>>>>>>>>> both >>>>>>>>>> great bikes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ryan, super happy Appaloosa rider >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 1, 2025 at 6:54:14 AM UTC-7 Mike in BK >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Excellent insight. Would be great to see a pic of the Sam. Maybe >>>>>>>>>>> the Appaloosa will be your go-to and you can sell it to me, lol! >>>>>>>>>>> Half >>>>>>>>>>> kidding, but always like to see a well loved Sam if you have pics >>>>>>>>>>> to post. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 31, 2025 at 10:56:29 AM UTC-4 >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW, I'm in a similar position and own a Sam and it's an >>>>>>>>>>>> amazing bike: I live in Chicago, most of my miles are commuting, >>>>>>>>>>>> limestone >>>>>>>>>>>> paths, streets and roads. I have a Hillborne and it is dreamy for >>>>>>>>>>>> all that, >>>>>>>>>>>> plus loaded rides on paved/good condition gravel roads. I'd >>>>>>>>>>>> describe the >>>>>>>>>>>> ride as super comfortable, stable, agile, responsive but not at >>>>>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>>>>> twitchy. From what you describe you do and aspire to do, it seems >>>>>>>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>>>>>>> ideal. It's really a wonderful bike that's so versatile. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Having converted a vintage Rockhopper to be rivish in the past, >>>>>>>>>>>> there is just no comparison to the Sam. The Sam is so much >>>>>>>>>>>> livelier, more >>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable, beautiful, stable, and fun. That Rockhopper was a lot >>>>>>>>>>>> of fun >>>>>>>>>>>> and inexpensive, but to me, they are totally different rides. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Re chainstays: They're long by standards of most contemporary >>>>>>>>>>>> bikes, just not quite as long as an Atlantis or some other Rivs. >>>>>>>>>>>> Some folks >>>>>>>>>>>> on the list find that relative shortness to be an advantage, as it >>>>>>>>>>>> makes >>>>>>>>>>>> the bike more maneuverable both on an off trail. If you find >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself >>>>>>>>>>>> lifting your bike up stairs, onto trains, into elevators, you >>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>> appreciate the shorter wheelbase, too. I know I've been in some >>>>>>>>>>>> situations >>>>>>>>>>>> where I thought: good gravy this is a big bike (57 Sam from 2021); >>>>>>>>>>>> thank >>>>>>>>>>>> goodness I don't have one of the longer models! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All that said, I'm lusty for an Appaloosa, because I'm planning >>>>>>>>>>>> on some long distance dirt touring where I want big chunky tires, >>>>>>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>>>>>> different setup than my Sam. But if that wasn't in the works, I >>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>>>>>>>> feel the need for any other bike. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 31, 2025 at 9:24:37 AM UTC-5 Mike in BK >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi gang. I'm itching for my first Riv and decision time is >>>>>>>>>>>>> upon me. In Brooklyn I'm rather relegated to paved rides, usually >>>>>>>>>>>>> laps in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the park. I was never fast, but now I'm rather slow. I don't have >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer on my bike and can't remember the last time I did. I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>> tired of >>>>>>>>>>>>> clipless pedals and lycra shorts. I want to indulge in "the art >>>>>>>>>>>>> of taking >>>>>>>>>>>>> it slow" and have a bike that expands on that magic sensation I >>>>>>>>>>>>> feel when I >>>>>>>>>>>>> ride my 1981 Trek 710 with 531 tubing and longer chainstays. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bigger tires >>>>>>>>>>>>> for starters and Grant's progressive designs. I built a '93 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rockhopper with >>>>>>>>>>>>> Toscos, a B17, and 2.2 tires for riding upstate and it's fun! >>>>>>>>>>>>> That frame's >>>>>>>>>>>>> position doesn't really work for longer rides and getting >>>>>>>>>>>>> distance covered >>>>>>>>>>>>> at a reasonable rate. I had the idea that I would go down to just >>>>>>>>>>>>> one bike >>>>>>>>>>>>> and pick my perfect do-it-all Riv. I don't think that's very >>>>>>>>>>>>> realistic, so >>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe the Trek will always have a use for strictly road rides. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That leaves >>>>>>>>>>>>> commuting, leisurely rides, and some gravel and trail riding when >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can get >>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. Hillborne you say? Not a bad idea, but I don't hear the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same glowing >>>>>>>>>>>>> reviews of "Cadillac" type ride, and supreme comfort like I do >>>>>>>>>>>>> when folks >>>>>>>>>>>>> write about Appaloosas, Platypi, and Charlie Gallops. Slack >>>>>>>>>>>>> headtube; long >>>>>>>>>>>>> chainstays; I'm buying in. The geo for the 61cm Charlie resembles >>>>>>>>>>>>> the 57cm >>>>>>>>>>>>> Appaloosa more than anything else. (I noticed the headtube of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe went >>>>>>>>>>>>> from 72 degrees to 70 degrees not too long ago, maybe that >>>>>>>>>>>>> started with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sergio green run). I don't think the Charlie would be ideal for >>>>>>>>>>>>> trails >>>>>>>>>>>>> under my 200 lbs, so I'm getting interested in the Joe. Antonio >>>>>>>>>>>>> at RBW >>>>>>>>>>>>> advised me that the Joe might be too long and heavy for my needs >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> recommended the Sam. I'm not sure if I'm jazzed about the Sam the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same way, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and no less important for such an investment, the lime olive Joe >>>>>>>>>>>>> coming up >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a way preferable color to the offerings of the Hillbornes >>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-selling >>>>>>>>>>>>> next week. I'd buy a used olive Hillborne (57cm) but no one ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> sells >>>>>>>>>>>>> their Riv! Any feedback from folks riding recent issue Appaloosas >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hillbornes would be very welcome. Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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