BUT! Jan's hypothesis that skinny tires feel faster because they
vibrate more seems to me to be very questionable. Doubtless when,
after six months, I return to my slightly-sub-18-lb gofast fixie after
riding the 30+ lb Fargo, the 30- trike and the 25lb errand Riv, and
find it "fast," this is due to a myriad of factors that cannot, or
only with more expertise and energy than is worth expending, be
reduced to scientifically identified causes. But (1) it does *feel*
faster; (2) it is no slower in concrete-like reality; and (3) all of
this has absolutely nuthin', repeat nothing, to do with road buzz.
In fact, reducing the question to a crudely empirical estimate of
crank rpm in the higher gear (75" comp to, respectively, 69", 70" and
72"), I *am* going faster. Again, no buzz factor.
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:09 AM, William <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> agreed. Even Jan Heine admits that the perception of speed is far stronger
> than any measurable speed difference in this hair-splitting area. He rides
> quality fat tires because he knows empirically that they are no slower at
> worst and slightly faster at best. He concedes that narrow tires feel
> faster despite the measurable fact that they are not. I remember that every
> time I see a post "I rode those tires for a while, but they were sluggish
> and slow". 19 times out of 20, that's a qualitative judgement, not a
> quantitative one.
>
> I've been tempted to ask Jan since going fast is fun (for the most part),
> but since going slow is safe (for the most part), shouldn't he run skinny
> tires, since they feel fast but are slow? I know, I'm a jerk, and a smart
> aleck.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:03:07 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
> wrote:
>>
>> MichaelH illustrates how little difference it makes. Three minutes is his
>> largest variation in his 18 mile ride on a variety of different tires with
>> different bikes, and that variation wasn't even reproducible in a second
>> trial. I spent seven years in grad school doing science, so I can see that
>> there are confounding factors in Michael's research that muddy the waters.
>> But his over all consistency from tire to tire and bike to bike suggests (if
>> not proves) that tire differences play much less role than, say, the rider's
>> day to day energy level and attitude, wind direction, and countless other
>> factors. Comparing one lightweight 700x28 tire to another is really
>> splitting hairs.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:16:05 PM UTC-5, MichaelH wrote:
>>>
>>> Another single data point.
>>>
>>> Along with the post on where the Rambouillet fit in the Riv line up, I
>>> rode an 18 mile loop from my home on my Ram with a pair of Continental GP4,
>>> 23 mm tires. (A gift). The course has 900 feet of climbing and includes
>>> 4-5 miles of dirt roads, with the rest equally divided among good pavement,
>>> bad pavement, and atrocious pavement. After the ride I recorded my time &
>>> subjective impressions (painful). I also discovered a cut in the sidewall
>>> of the rear tire, so I decide to replicate the ride with a variety of bikes
>>> and ties. I rode it twice on my Ebisu with Jack Browns. The first ride was
>>> 3 minutes slower but the second was identical, although a lot more
>>> comfortable. I rode it once with my Trek & T Serve (30mm actual). My time
>>> was right between the faster and slower rides & the comfort just a nudge
>>> below the JB. Now the wind has shifted around from the south to the west (
>>> it has been blowing at 20 -25 mph, making this very real world test) and the
>>> dirt road has been graded, leaving it's surface full of rocks and loose
>>> sand, so it's really hard going now. Hard to make comparisons. I'm in
>>> Boston for the weekend and heavy rain forecasted for next week so this test
>>> will be suspended for a while.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure where this leaves me. I'd like to put the Grand Bois Green
>>> on my ram but am wondering if the perceived advantage is worth the added
>>> flats.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:29:48 PM UTC-4, William wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the same boat with Pari-Motos. I flat almost every ride with
>>>> Pari-Motos, and almost never with anything else. I've put them back on
>>>> with
>>>> Foss tubes to try again. I like the ride of them, but the flat record is
>>>> pretty bad for me. For me it's been glass.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:55:06 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Prompted by this thread I changed out the Rolly Poly/Ruffy Tuffy
>>>>> front/rear combo on my road bike wheels to the pair of (what I have
>>>>> considered to be special event) Grand Bois Cerf 28mm tires. I rode them
>>>>> for
>>>>> 25 mountainy miles yesterday and enjoyed their feel immensely. Today I
>>>>> got a
>>>>> front goathead flat. This is the 3rd flat I have had on these tires in
>>>>> about
>>>>> a dozen rides. This is by far the worst flat record of any tire I have
>>>>> used,
>>>>> ever. I understand I cannot say this will be the flat record for me in the
>>>>> future or for you in your environment, but my faith in the tire is shaken
>>>>> and it affects the enjoyment of my ride. I am putting more effort into
>>>>> scanning the road or trying to stay off the dirtier portions of the road
>>>>> instead of enjoying the view or thinking my deep thoughts. {~;
>>>>> .
>>>>> When I got home I fixed the flat, pulled the GB Cerfs and replaced them
>>>>> with the RP/RT combo. As I was changing them, I weighed them on my Park
>>>>> digital spring scale. To the nearest ounce, the Cerf was 10oz, Rolly
>>>>> Poly 11oz, Ruffy Tuffy 13oz, Jack Brown Green 33mm was 12-13oz. All of
>>>>> these
>>>>> tires are made by Panasonic. Now I believe Jan Heine's rollout tire
>>>>> comparisons are valid. But for me to flat every second or third ride is
>>>>> just
>>>>> not worth the lower rolling resistance or an ounce or two of rotating
>>>>> weight.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
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--
-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
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When all the stars are dead.
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