HI Christopher,
I don't know if this is similar.
I have a stacked 3648 unit, running in parallel at 120v. Being fed
from a 240v generator with a X-240 as stepdown. Generator is a Onan
8.5kw. ( don't ask why its a long story)
Unit did work OK for about 2 yrs.
When you start the generator, the inverter will connect, AC voltage
will rise until the inverter kicks out the generator and the cycle
repeats.
Now here is where it gets weird, if you turn on a few lights ( could
be incandescent or CFL's) and I mean like 150 watts worth, and then
turn on the generator it will work OK. Won't have the AC spike. But a
small motor spike, such as a Rotozip etc will kick out the generator,
and then it starts again.
Turning down the AC input AAC rating doesn't help, unless you turn it
down a lot.
The generator has a new board and was tested out as OK.
If you run the house directly from the generator no problems. You can
run large loads no problem.
If you run the house directly from the inverter all is good.
Only issue is with genny/inv interface.
Of course its a 2.5 hr drive each way.
Do you think this is a related problem?
thanks,
jay
peltz power
On Dec 29, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Christopher Freitas wrote:
Ron –
Tech support is open today and should be able to help you
troubleshoot this in a step-by-step process that will discover the
root problem.
I am a bit confused by the descriptions of the events and have the
following questions and comments:
When you tested just the inverter without the generator running –
you stated that there was a noticeable flicker every 20 seconds –
did you also notice that the yellow “AC INPUT” light would blink and
then turn solid momentarily? This usually indicates that there is a
cross connection of the inverter’s AC output with the AC input
wiring – which can be caused by many different problems (nicked or
chewed wires, water filled junction box or conduits, miswiring of a
240VAC load, etc. – or an internal problem with the inverter). In a
nutshell – the inverter is “seeing” its own AC output at its AC
input – so it connects and then tries to charge from itself – which
causes the AC output voltage to decrease – and then it drops the AC
source for another 20 seconds – over and over…
When the generator was connected to the inverter – was the varying
AC input voltage viewed on a digital test meter or on the MATE’s
display? The voltage display on the MATE will vary until the
inverter has actually connected to the generator since the inverter
is not locked onto the frequency of the generator. The fluctuation
of the AC voltage on the MATE is more pronounced if the frequency of
the generator is way off from the 60hz nominal. Check the voltage
and the frequency at the inverter’s AC input terminals with a good
quality true-RMS meter with the generator running but not connected.
Is this a 120/240VAC “split phase” generator operating with only one
inverter on it? It is possible that an internal connection in the
generators windings has fried due to overloading one output leg of
the generator – its similar to a bad solder joint where the voltage
is OK until current is pulled and then it opens up. You might try
putting the inverter on the other leg to see if you see the same
issue.
I agree with the multiple problem theory that was suggested – it
sounds like the generator is having a problem maintaining good
voltage (or more likely a high enough frequency probably) and then
there is some type of voltage feedback occurring when the generator
is not connected. Be sure to check the frequency of the generator
when seeing issues like this – its often the problem.
Let us know if you need more assistance
Christopher
Christopher Freitas
Director of Research and Development
OutBack Power Systems, Inc.
cfrei...@outbackpower.com
Tel 360 435 6030
Cell 360 202 4239
19009 62nd Ave NE
Arlington WA 98223 USA
www.outbackpower.com
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
] On Behalf Of Drake Chamberlin
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:39 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX input voltage cycling
I would also look at the loads. From an earlier post of yours it
appeared that the system ran more normally when not connected to the
house loads, but still cycled.
Could something on the load side be shorting, or could there be a
huge load trying to kick on that doesn't really start? It may well
be a situation where two (or more) things are going on
simultaneously. My approach would be to continue to isolate
components and run several different tests on all components.
Good luck
Drake
At 08:51 PM 12/28/2008, you wrote:
This thread seems to have died ... somehow it got mixed in with the
"strings of different orientation" thread. If anyone has further
input I would very much appreciate it as I have to schedule a long
trip to remedy this and want to have as much ammunition as possible.
Again, to restate the problem:
an Outback VFX3524 inverter installed on an E-panel in a remote off-
grid location. Voltage at the inverter input terminals is
fluctuating between 110 & 140+ volts continuously. AC in will not
connect so batteries can't charge. Output voltage measured at the
inverter output terminals is steady at 122v. When all household
loads are turned off the input terminal voltage stabilizes but AC In
still does not connect.
Generator does not seem to be at fault as output measured at the
gen. is stable even under load. System was working for about 1 1/2
years but under new ownership has been badly monitored and batteries
have become totally discharged.
I'm trying to determine if this is a circuit board problem so I can
perform a rescue mission by pulling some boards from an in-stock
inverter, Outback tech support are on holidays. Anyone had a similar
problem?
Mick,
referring to
there's not an auto-idle switch on that genset which may have
accidentally been set for auto, is there?
His generator was actually running in idle mode, operating the
household loads when I got there and the first thing I discovered
was that the voltage was ~90 volts coming in to the inverter. I
manually switched the generator to full speed and then checked the
voltage again, that is where I found the rapid fluctuations
occurring at the inverter.
Ron
On 27-Dec-08, at 1:23 PM, mick abraham wrote:
Ron wrote: "The owner told me...that someone had wired a switch
incorrectly
and when he turned it on the system "shut down". He then re-wired it
and
everything appeared ok but I'm wondering if this fried a board."
Mick replies: I've seen several times with Outback and other brands
(going as
far back as the Trace SW) where the inverter responds to an
accidental short
circuit in the household wiring by shutting itself off quicker than
a circuit
breaker can open. I'll bet that is what your customer
experienced...possibly
due to a nicked hot wire in that new switch box shorting out to
ground.
I suspect that (part of your customer's report) is completely
unrelated to
your present problem scenario. If it was my headache I would beg,
borrow,
or...rent a second generator to insert temporarily instead of the
Honda 3800.
That's the most conclusive way to determine fault or no-fault on the
generator.
Sometimes a genset will operate non-inverter loads OK and will
exhibit normal
looking voltage etc. but there still could be transients or spikes
which
render this input AC power unacceptable to the inverter/charger.
Thinking...there's not an auto-idle switch on that genset which may
have
accidentally been set for auto, is there?
Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com
Voice: 970-731-4675
Hi Mick & Jay,
I disconnected the gen. line to the inverter and tested the output
and got steady voltage. I then re-connected the inverter and tested
the gen. output from a different outlet and got steady voltage,
both around 122v. So I've ruled out the generator. It was my first
suspicion.
I have also noticed that when the household loads are off the
inverter output appears stable, doesn't fluctuate except about
every 20 seconds inverter audibly, the voltage drops from around
120 to 110 then resumes - as if the input was momentarily dropped.
Darryl,
I did play with the AC charge current lowering it to around 5 aac
but it didn't seem to make a difference. The owner told me, as an
afterthought that someone had wired a switch incorrectly and when
he turned it on the system "shut down". He then re-wired it and
everything appeared ok but I'm wondering if this fried a board. I
know there is an ac control board in there ... could this be it?
BTW, it's a very small generator, Honda 3800.
Ron
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Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648
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