I feel the same way, it seems like a can of worms. I think it has to be a complete do over... That seems like a lot of work for free!
Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Jan 13, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Kelly Larson <solarwre...@asis.com> wrote: >> "Warning: those old DIY setups quickly become a can of worms, the further >> you dig into them. Don't assume anything was done right." > > ...Including checking the polarity of every wire! Who knows what the color > meant to the last guy. > > And don't just mess with a few things and leave it. That customer is sure to > have more problems and you were the last to touch it. (God forbid if they > have an electrical fire.) Tell them it will take time to fix the mess. > Make yourself a wiring diagram following every wire. This will take some > customer investment, but result in a working system and happy customer. > > Blessings, > Kelly > > Kelly Larson > Box 104 > Piercy, CA 95587 > 707-223-3209 > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer > ISPQ Master Trainer > CA C-10 # 868189 > solarke...@asis.com > > "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I > hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." > ~ Thomas Edison > > > > > On Dec 29, 2010, at 10:59 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: > >> Jay; >> >> I've saved a few sets from freezing, different manufacturers' cases are >> stronger than others. (ie, A Trojan T105 can take more stress than something >> from Sam's Club.) >> FIrst I make sure they're less than 5 years old. >> Then, I warm them backup (portable propane heater, very well vented area, no >> current flow in or out) >> 3rd, See if any are leaking >> 4th, Charge them with the caps off, monitoring voltage, current, >> temperature, and bubbling action. >> >> Jesse; >> >> Your eyes and health are not worth risking to save those old things; 12 >> years is a fairly respectable lifespan in a poorly setup system. >> I think to continue to work with those batteries is inviting danger >> (everyone's recent explosion stories?) >> All those problems were caused by shorting plates, and other malfunctions, >> usually only seen in old batteries. >> >> Batteries only freeze when completely abused. The inverter probably was >> shutting off all the time from low voltage, and they had DC loads dragging >> it down even lower. >> The recent string on battery temperature management should be applied in >> this case too. I've seen poorly designed venting, freeze batteries right >> next to it, while the batteries on the inside >> were warm. >> >> I agree with Allan's assessment: this set is toast, and considering this is >> the worst time of year to not have a good battery set, I'd take care of that >> lady, and get her into a fresh set, ASAP. >> This is also a chance to do some needed rewiring of the system. >> Warning: those old DIY setups quickly become a can of worms, the further you >> dig into them. Don't assume anything was done right. >> >> R. Walters >> r...@solarray.com >> Solar Engineer >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 29, 2010, at 9:16 AM, jay peltz wrote: >> >>> I'd like to go back to the freezing battery part as I don't live in real >>> freezing territory. >>> >>> How could they actually freeze and not destroy the housing, internal plate >>> structure and in the end work at all? >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> jay >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan >>>> Sindelar >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 10:41 AM >>>> To: dahlso...@gmail.com; RE-wrenches >>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace inverters undercharging batteries. >>>> >>>> Jesse, >>>> Don't waste your time on those batteries; they are all toast. Don't >>>> replace them with the same; four strings is poor design. Read the article >>>> about off-grid batteries in the current Home Power, and then sell the >>>> customer a set of 12 (or 24; either one string or two is OK) 2V industrial >>>> cells, such as HUPs from Northwest Energy Storage or K-series Surrettes. >>>> Size unknown. The existing full bank was 1400 A/hr if the cell cases had >>>> black covers, 1600 A/hr if the tops are blue, to give you an idea. >>>> >>>> BP modules from 1998 would have most likely been 12V 75W or 85W, meaning >>>> 900-1000 watts; too small an array for that size battery bank if the home >>>> is used full-time; OK for a seasonal or weekend cabin. >>>> >>>> Only with new batteries can you even tell what the inverters are doing. My >>>> hunch is that the inverters aren't at fault. However, given the poor >>>> quality of the original installation, they likely are set to default >>>> setpoints, which can charge at a very high rate (about 220A at 28.8V for >>>> two if the gennie is big enough) but won't get batteries full (and can't >>>> equalize them), as the default setpoints are too low. And I'll bet dollars >>>> to doughnuts the default setpoints are in place, as the inverters have >>>> been shut down sometime in the last 12 years, losing any original >>>> programming settings. >>>> >>>> You might see about getting an experienced off-gridder in your frozen >>>> region to work with you. Maybe Darryl could consult now, then make one >>>> trip out to set up the system once the new batteries are in. This was the >>>> classic late-90s system with a later charge controller upgrade, but if you >>>> have never worked with this equipment, you're likely to set it up for a >>>> repeat failure years down the road. >>>> >>>> Just read Jamie's post - while his advice is spot on, of course, you need >>>> to decide if it's worth your while. I'd be more inclined to try his >>>> approach if the battery bank was three years old, not 12. That's a huge >>>> amount of time spent, working with acid and an unknown set of hazards, >>>> with at best the possibility of a few years' use. I'd suggest that unless >>>> it's your father-in-law's cabin, and you value the chance to hang out >>>> there for a week, it's not worth your time or the customer's, especially >>>> given that you acknowledge having little off-grid experience. >>>> >>>> Allan >>>> >>>> Allan Sindelar >>>> al...@positiveenergysolar.com >>>> NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer >>>> EE98J Journeyman Electrician >>>> Positive Energy, Inc. >>>> 3201 Calle Marie >>>> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 >>>> 505 424-1112 >>>> www.positiveenergysolar.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Options & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Options & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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