Ron, you have misquoted me so yes you are wrong. It is not about getting to 32 volts. Go read it again.
On Nov 16, 2011, at 12:20 AM, Ron Young wrote: > Hi Daryl. I've got other KS25's in hybrid systems (wind gen & solar) that > seem to do fine over the last several years. The Ouback 3524 has an 85 amp > charger. There was no problem getting to 32 v and holding it for eight > hours. This has been done twice now. Larry and others attribute the ability > to get to 32v to a sulphated battery condition and I'm thinking that a > healthy battery could get to 32v as well, especially one that's been > regularly EQ'd... am I wrong? > > I'm listening to every opinion here and trying to sort it out but I think > John may be on the right track with an intermittent failure of one cell. I > just can't seem to find it. > > Ron Young > > On 2011-11-13, at 3:51 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: > >> Ron, >> What comes to mind for me is that Surrette 5000 series batteries like >> to have a regular charge of C10. KS25 cells are rated for 1350 ah, >> creating a need for a somewhat regularly occurring charge of 135 amps. >> I do believe the batteries are not ever getting that, except for very >> rare occasions. We have seen this before in undersized systems. >> Is the bulk charge set to 29.6? I would try a couple more eq's over the >> next month to loosen likely sulfation. Get it up to as close to 32 >> volts as possible and taper the charge down, then eq at that voltage >> for four or five hours, even more if the client will do it. >> That would be how we would deal with this. It does seem ultimately to >> be sulfation that is the problem. >> >> Daryl DeJoy >> NABCEP Certified PV installer >> Penobscot Solar Design >> >> >> >> >>> Folks, this one really has me puzzled. The client has done regular two >>> hour EQ's, at least once a month. When did a site visit and I topped up >>> the electrolyte (they'd been starving the batteries for water but always >>> just above the plates) the problem seemed to go away. They were satisfied >>> that the problem was solved but I wasn't and I told them what I had been >>> hearing from this group - essentially that the batteries needed a deep EQ, >>> discharge, recharge and EQ again two or three times to scrub the >>> sulphates. They declined until just a few days ago when they said the >>> rapid voltage drop was back. Here's a quote: >>> >>> We had another rapid voltage loss this morning ---it was 25.2 when we got >>> up and it dropped rapidly to 22.8. We turned on the generator and charged >>> the batteries until our display showed 30.2 for awhile with the generator >>> running. We turned off the generator and the voltage settled at about >>> 26.4. We turned off all loads and wind and solar. >>> >>> At 9.15 our batteries were at 26.4 >>> At 9:16 we turned on an 8W light bulb, a1600W hair dryer, and a 1.5HP >>> (120V 5.75A) shop vac >>> The display showed a load of 1.9kw >>> At 9:40 the inverter shut down---display showed batteries at 18.4 >>> By 9.47 the display showed the batteries at 25.2----the solar and wind >>> were still shut down. >>> We turned everything back on (a light, Sunfrost RF16, phone) and all >>> seems to be normal. >>> >>> They agreed to do the EQ process but only have a 3kw generator so we >>> started with 8 hours with the EQ voltage set for 32v (24v system). They >>> completed that yesterday and here's what resulted: >>> >>> Before starting EQ the batteries were at 25.8, hydrometer reading 1283 >>> with temp. correction >>> Began EQ 32.6 v >>> Buying >>> 1.5 kw >>> Hour 1 32.4 v >>> 1283 with temp. correction Buying 1.4 >>> Hour 2 32.4 v >>> 1285 with temp. correction Buying 1.5 >>> Hour 3 32.2 v >>> >>> Buying 1.7 >>> Hour 4 32.2 v >>> 1290 with temp correction Buying 1.8 >>> HOur 5 32.0 v >>> 1290 with temp correction Buying 1.8 >>> Hour 6 32.0 v >>> Buying >>> 1.9 >>> Hour 7 31.8 v >>> 1292 with temp correcton Buying 1.9 >>> Hour 8 complete---turned off Gen and turned on loads ---Batteries dropped >>> to 25.4 within 30 minutes and stayed there until this morning---fridge was >>> running, telephone, internet, wool carding machine, lights. This morning >>> hydrometer reading was at 1290. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Then today I just got this email: >>> >>> Just experienced another rapid voltage drop. As soon as the voltage hits >>> 24.8 the voltage drops like a rock if we don't have any input (no solar or >>> wind). >>> >>> This is not what I expected after a lengthy EQ. I'm getting them to do >>> another one tomorrow after a discharge cycle and charge but I'm really >>> beginning to think we have something else going on here, something >>> electrical, not chemical. The rapid voltage drop is puzzling. >>> >>> To review, it's an Outback 3524 on an Epanel, Whisper 100 & controller, 6 >>> 4KS 25 Surrette batteries in 24v configuration - 4.5 years old, .7kw >>> solar. I know the charging end is undersized but they have been >>> compensating with the generator and they get lots of wind in the fall, >>> winter, spring. >>> >>> Any more thoughts on this anyone? >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Ron Young >>> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com >>> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products >>> >>> >>> On 2011-10-24, at 6:50 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ron, >>>> Accurate SG readings are not simple. Was temperature compensation >>>> properly employed? Have they been keeping a log book to identify >>>> changes? How accurate is the hydrometer? How skilled is the person >>>> taking the reading? >>>> >>>> Most of the Battery Wrench responses suggest equalization but I don't >>>> see from any of your posts that this has been done yet. I suggest this >>>> to be the next step and I recommend that you carefully watch voltage and >>>> current. This will tell you a lot. I use a Fluke ScopeMeter in the >>>> TrendPlot mode and track voltage and current over time. It provides a >>>> good visual understanding. >>>> >>>> In case others are using this forum to glean information, attached is a >>>> chart for illustration of the charge cycle. You should see a constant, >>>> somewhat linear rise in voltage until the constant voltage setting is >>>> reached. If you see a sudden rise: suspect sulfation. If you see a quick >>>> reduction in current: suspect sulfation. The current should drop to >>>> about 8-10 amps at the constant voltage towards the end of charge cycle. >>>> The health and DoD will determine the time this takes, expect many >>>> hours. Begin equalization. >>>> >>>> <3s-chart.gif> >>>> >>>> A couple other points: Is the MX absorb voltage at 29.6V? Did you >>>> program the MX controller for an extended absorb time (advanced menu, >>>> absorb time limits)? The default setting is poor for large batteries. I >>>> use 90 minutes minimum and 4 hours max. This can greatly reduce the >>>> possibility of undercharging the battery but it may use more water. The >>>> timer (ChgT) will determine how long it stays in absorb each day. >>>> >>>> Larry Crutcher >>>> Starlight Solar Power Systems >>>> >>>> On Oct 24, 2011, at 12:49 AM, Ron Young wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Larry, >>>>> >>>>> I immediately assumed sulphated battery when I heard the customers >>>>> description a couple of weeks ago but the hydrometer readings didn't >>>>> jive. Any sulphated battery I've encountered, and I defer to your >>>>> greater experience, has always revealed itself with a simple S.G. test >>>>> and these batteries were reading above 1.265. I then thought the >>>>> possibility of a defective hydrometer and had them test with another >>>>> but we just got confirmation of the same thing. >>>>> >>>>> The weird drop in voltage also isn't explained by your description. Why >>>>> would this just happen without loads or charging present (except maybe >>>>> the DC Sunfrost load) at the same predictable time at 4 a.m. The fact >>>>> that when the generator was turned on and sent a surge of current into >>>>> the system and the problem went away made the detective in me think >>>>> there had to be another explanation. The bank was at rest for several >>>>> hours through the night and the voltage dropout was cured by a brief >>>>> application of charge current. >>>>> >>>>> When I arrived on site my discovery that the client was under watering >>>>> the batteries and this chronic condition resulted in a very rich >>>>> electrolyte, reading well above 1.265 - into the 1.280 range made me >>>>> think that was the problem and it seems to have gone away now that the >>>>> electrolyte level was raised and the batteries given a good charge. But >>>>> it still nags at me that something else is lurking in the shadows. Your >>>>> description of the sulphate converting to a crystalline form has me >>>>> worried because if this is the case this expensive battery bank is in >>>>> danger. I would have to camp out at the site and monitor the charging >>>>> over a day or so. I'm going to forward some of your comments and those >>>>> of others that have generously offered suggestions and we'll see if I >>>>> can convince the client who now believes everything is A-Ok. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Ron Young >>>>> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com >>>>> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Options & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Options & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Options & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org