Jason, I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution.
Is this your conclusion as well? On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:38 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere > along a feeder" ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot > rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum > overcurrent'. Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of > up to 10,000 amps withstand. Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. >> >> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you >> could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized >> accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an >> appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a >> real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the >> conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. >> >> Jason >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet >>> and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with >>> multiple sources see 705 >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a >>>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros >>>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A >>>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jason, >>>>> >>>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >>>>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >>>>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >>>>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>>>> >>>>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in >>>>> an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >>>>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >>>>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, >>>>> the >>>>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>>>> >>>>> -Chris >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can >>>>>> put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. >>>>>> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. >>>>>> The >>>>>> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the >>>>>>> design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and >>>>>>> connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max >>>>>>> output >>>>>>> can be plus your margin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do >>>>>>>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> OCPD of the unit? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>>>>>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>>>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It >>>>>>>>>> has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load >>>>>>>>>> disconnect. >>>>>>>>>> But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to >>>>>>>>>> 2/0. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a >>>>>>>>>> short >>>>>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
