I had a lot of trouble keeping QO breakers functional on a 12VDC distribution system. I'd have to move them around every week or so to keep a good contact on the plug in contacts. They seem to work fine on a 24VDC system. I went to using MNPV or MNDC breakers instead in PV combiner or other MidNite boxes. QOU breakers are fine, but I don't know of any standard distribution box for them.
Brad Bassett Application Engineer retired On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 11:42 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I appreciate the concern. It's not one of those situations. We have a > couple of barrier islands around here where people have set up what amounts > to little fish camps that are used infrequently. The islands are also home > to a few full-time/most-time residents and state parks. Everyone knows > everyone. The clients are safe and reliable. These sites range from places > that people paid just tens of thousands of dollars decades ago all the way > up to many-multi-million dollar strips of sand where very wealthy people > like to look out over Naples beach a couple times of year from their > off-grid mansions. It's pretty interesting. > > I "get" why people who only take friends out a few times a year on a > fishing expedition want a band-aid approach. There is no reason to throw > $100K at a situation like this. In this case, I feel I can get creative to > meet the very limited 12V and 120V needs while providing a reliable and > long-lasting solution for around $25K and pocket enough money that I want > to answer their call in the future. Right now they are getting by with 4 x > 100W Solarland modules with a 9.6kWh battery bank and a Honda EU2000. I'm > certain they will be blown away with the performance of whatever I propose, > and happy that it is installed in a safe and professional manner. > > The current distribution systems look solid, each protected by a Square D > QO breaker panel and professionally installed. The power production and > delivery system is a total kludge that I feel I can fix without too much > risk. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 2:19 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> How about just buy an RV? >> >> Seriously the reason Jason I am Leary is because of the experiences I >> have had with what I call Offgrid Squalor. >> >> Just have to be careful especially these days of druggies, people in vans >> with no windows, ex paramilitary that went bad, >> and you get the picture. >> >> If you know the person that is the way to keep you and your loved ones >> safe. Money does talk sometimes and the lack can of it >> can be a warning. >> >> Also as mentioned, these types of situations, are what gets my accountant >> telling me if you do not charge enough, >> no one will listen to your advice. >> >> >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net> >> text 209 813 0060* >> >> >> On 2024-04-24 10:51 am, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Jason, >> Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery >> charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now >> with the battery cables going nowhere. I was thinking of putting the >> battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits >> low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the >> generator (or it won't start). >> My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps. >> >> John >> >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was >> thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is >> the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly >> with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load >> should be pretty minimal. >> >> I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that >> cost and complexity if possible. >> >> >> And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's >> really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Jason, >> I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V >> VFX inverter, He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very >> fancy custom control board >> originally set up to handle AC and DC systems. We are adding a lot more >> solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like >> that idea. We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my >> house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a >> large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in >> place of the 12V inverter. He complained that the existing inverter would >> not handle all his current AC loads very well. My own house is fully wired >> for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been >> considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. >> Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large >> stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller >> to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my >> Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now. For your >> customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace >> his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V >> inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a >> smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe >> thats why I never seem to make money.!! >> >> John Blittersdorf >> offgridvermont.com >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any >> negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple >> and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, >> for sure. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Not being helpful but I walk away from these. It will come back to you. >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net> >> text 209 813 0060* >> >> >> On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a >> cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, >> fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run >> through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt >> Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged >> through a Trace C40. >> >> He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM >> batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power >> for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that >> he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I >> would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to >> double or triple his usable capacity. >> >> For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to >> eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to >> keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to replace >> fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if >> he has an inverter. >> >> He definitely wants LiPo batteries. >> >> I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting an >> inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and >> monitor things. >> >> I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 volt >> inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and using a DC >> converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 12 volts for >> his existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad idea? Should I stick >> with a 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 12 volt pressure pump >> which might be an issue for the converter. I'm not sure. I am a bit worried >> about the efficiency loss and capacity of DC converters and not sure how to >> size it. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. 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