On Jan 5, 2007, at 1:47 PM, Giovanni wrote:
Can you show where Apple covers the developers in its platform?
1- The link does not say "We are granting license". Content
providers is not the same as App developers. The page you provided
talks about MPEG-4 which is totally a different technology then MP3.
The key here is that you are using the Quicktime binary (or Windows
Media Player binary) from within your application - you've not
"reinvented" the playback functionality with your app. In other
words, if the user doesn't already have Quicktime, Flip4Mac, Windows
Media Player, etc. installed, your application won't be able to play
the media assigned to those playback engines.
Therefore, the Apple or MS license to the End User is what matters
and you don't need a special license from Apple or MS for this use.
If you were writing your own codec that doesn't use the products as
delivered by Apple, Microsoft, et al, you would need to worry about
getting a license for your application based on the license
restrictions of the format to be played back. However, since you're
simply making use of the existing codecs that the user has already
licensed by installing and agreeing to the EULA provided by Apple,
Microsoft, et al, you're application does not require a separate
license for playback of these formats.
2- Do you have any information other then the one provided by me
that a player(decoder) is not required licensing as long as they
use Flip4Mac?
Flip4Mac is a codec, but Applications are different then a codec.
Quicktime is being used to develop an App. So in theory the payor
would have to be you the App developer not apple.
No - Quicktime is being used inside of your app.
A good example of this is MP3 and the LAME MP3 library. Just
because you can use the Lame library it does not grant a developer
the right to use MP3, playback. Macromedia/Adobe pays a certain
amount of money in licensing for its developers, but I am yet to
find anything that says that apple has made an agreement or that
RealSoft has made an agreement with the MP3 people regarding this.
You're not using a sublicensed set of codecs in the case of a RB
application using QT / WMP for playback - i.e. you're not including
the WMP or QT in your application, you're depending on it being
present on the user's system; you're using the whole of that licensed
Application. The application's license covers your use of the app
just as it does the end user's.
MP3 licensing explicitly says Application to decode(playback) and
encode(edit/save) and so does Microsoft. Codec licensing is a
different animal and requires different royalties.
You're not creating a codec, you're using an existing one - one that
is already licensed and licensed to the system's user.
I am not disagreeing with you, I would like to know where the
information is so that I can print it and have it on file just in
case MS, Apple, or any patent holder comes knocking at my door.
I don't know of any specific docs on this as the licensors' demands
are already covered by the EULA that the system user agreed to when
they install QT, WMP, or F4M.
By the way, Playback on Windows is covered by microsoft if you use
different libraries, but it was my understanding that not all
libraries. This umbrella is under Windows only. If you create an
application to Decode and Encode on any other platform you are
required to get licensing.
The key here is "if you create an application to decode and encode".
You're not creating such an application if you're using the WMP and
QT binaries to accomplish this.
You really are turning this into much more than you need to in this
case. You're not creating codecs, you're simply using the already
licensed ones that exist on the users' systems.
This is similar to the way we license BRU to our OEM partners - they
can either license the BRU I/O engine from us and include it for
their users, or they can require the user to have a valid BRU license
and the call that binary from their application. The latter scenario
is what you're doing with an RB app and QT/WMP/F4M - the end user
must already have a license to the binary installed.
Does that make this any more clear for you?
Tim
--
Tim Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Patent licensing is complicated and I personally hate some aspects
of it.
Can anyone provide details for the Apple platform, I am quite
versed on the Windows side of things, but the Apple side eludes me.
Links would be great.
By the way, if you live in a country where the International
Patents are not enforced, lucky you. I do not have that luck.
Norman Palardy wrote:
On Jan 05, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Giovanni wrote:
Licensing for most of the apps you mentioned is a bear.
MP3: Playback licensing is required and costly. $10,000.00
(Unless the underlying technology is licensed). In Windows, it is
cover under directx for PLAYBACK only. There is no provision for
Mac as far as I know, please tell me if I'm wrong. I would love
to know.
http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html
If you are using Quicktime as the playback engine this is already
covered by Apple
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/feb/12qt6.html
JPEG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG
As of October 6 </wiki/October_6>, 2006 </wiki/2006>, the U.S.
patent's 20-year term appears to have expired, and in November
2006, Forgent agreed to abandon enforcement of patent claims
against use of the JPEG standard.^[6] <#_note-surrendered>
The JPEG committee has as one of its explicit goals that their
standards (in particular their baseline methods) be implementable
without payment of license fees, and they have secured
appropriate license rights for their upcoming JPEG 2000 </wiki/
JPEG_2000> standard from over 20 large organizations.
Windows Media Technologies: Licensing is free under Windows but
not free on any none-windows platforms including the Mac.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/licensing/
final.aspx#WindowsMediaAudioStandardVersion_Final
Microsoft gives away the Flip4mac add on to Quicktime and there is
no license required unless you are PORTING their codecs which is
not required
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?
pid=windowsmedia
By the way, I would love to know if RS is paying for usage of the
players on their development engine. The thing is that RS is not
the developer of the application, you and I are, so I would love
to know what licensing if any is covered by RS.
Some is covered by Apple, some by MS
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