On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 07:36:26AM -0500, Joel Neely wrote:
> Hi, Tim,
>
> > Myself, I use vim on both Linux and Windows,
> > but I think either vim or emacs would be a
> > little too difficult for some of the students.
-But not all of them, I do anticipate that some will
investigate vim, since (even though I don't make it a
requirement) I speak very frankly about my use of it.
> At the risk of sounding elitist, I have to disagree with
> the conclusion of your last sentence and recommend vim,
> for the following reasons:
> 1) vim-related:
> * Works on *many* platforms the students are
> likely to have access to (both at school
> and at home.
> * Founded on vi, the most ubiquitous editor in
> the Unix/Linux world. (Note: I didn't say
> "best" -- I'm not trying to start a flame war
> -- I simply meant that you can find vi on
> essentially any *n*x box, regardless of age
> or size.) Therefore the result of learning
> vim is a highly portable/reusable skill.
> * Syntax coloring works.
> * The basic text-manipulation commands in vi(m)
> have a direct analog to the basic series
> manipulation operations in REBOL: changing
> part of a series, removing part of a series,
> inserting somewhere in a series, moving the
> "current position" within a series, etc.
> Therefore you're able to introduce the concepts
> once and re-use them for both programming and
> editing.
>
> 2) student-related: (the part most likely to provoke
> some flames, I fear)
> * Using any text editor (emphasis on "any")
> requires that you understand files, inserting
> and deleting text, versions of files, backup
> habits, etc. Any student who can't understand
> these concepts has no business programming.
> In any language.
> * It's fairly easy to define "core vi(m)" commands
> (:e :r :w :q i a I A o O c d and, of course,
> h j k l 0 $) that are enough to do some 75% of
> all simple editing tasks. This is one class
> period's worth of work, plus some practice to
> push the knowledge "out to the fingertips".
> Any student who can't understand these concepts
> has no business programming. In any language.
>
> I should add that my perspective is based (in part) on my
> own experiences in teaching (12 years' of Math and Computing
> Science in higher education) and my sadness (and even
> frustration, at times) over the disservice done to entering
> students by high-school teachers who short-changed the kids
> by assuming that they couldn't learn -- and therefore didn't
> teach the kids things they should have known.
>
> Have faith. Trust the kids. Be enthusiastic. Don't be
> afraid to give them a challenge. Respect their minds and
> get ready for a surprise. (And, sadly, deal with the fact
> that everyone deserves an equal opportunity, but not all
> will make the most of it.)
Your points are well taken, however it is my concern, and
the concern of those that I contracted to design this
class - that making a stipulation of one editor over another
would create backlashes from the community. I know the parents
of some of the students, indeed all 6 of my kids and step
kids came out of this environment.
I just want to give them some options - and a generic Windows
- style Editor "should" be an option in my opinion.
Our decision was based on not leveraging one product by teaching
another. It had nothing to do with trust or not trusting the
kids. I also know that some of the kids "love" xemacs, so
it isn't just the parents. :>)
thanks Joe
Tim
(Writing on Vim)
> -jn-
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--
Tim Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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--TheManWhoSpeaksInAnagrams (Monty Python)
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