Hi Glenn,
I didn't actually receive what you had written for your thesis. However, I
would be interested in reading it if you are prepared to send it again -
possible directly to me if it is a long one.
Don
Don Clark
President
Indigenous Social Justice Association
PO Box K555
Haymarket NSW 1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
There can be no real reconciliation without social justice
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 March 2000 5:10 P.M.
Subject: RE: [recoznet2] Karen, Karen, Karen!
> Hi all,
>
> I haven't reared my ugly mug for a while, but couldn't resist the
temptation
> here. I have replied to Karen directly with the following. (Please note,
> I'm the first to admit that my thesis is far from definitive and that it
is
> written from a position of much ignorance and certainly a lot of inbuilt
> prejudices. But it was a start for me, and if anyone would like to read
> through it to give me some feedback, I'd be only too happy to send it on
> through.)
>
> "Karen,
>
> If you are really sincere in wanting to understand why we claim racism,
then
> please read the following with an open mind, an open heart, and with as
much
> empathy as you can summon. Really, really, really try to put yourself in
> someone else's shoes. Granted, that is extremely hard (and for a white
> middle class boy like myself, it was next to impossible in some cases, and
> absolutely impossible in others, as any Aboriginal person reading my
thesis
> would tell you). In particular, pay close attention to the research and
> theory. The recommendations fall well into the latter category of me not
> being able to fully put myself in Aboriginal shoes, and are, therefore,
not
> the best. It's a long read, but it goes some way towards explaining why I
> believe racism is rampant in our society (well, our society is built upon
> it).
>
> The thesis was written for my MA (International Communication) at
Macquarie
> University."
>
> Cheers.
>
> Glenn Murray
> The views expressed in this email and the attached documents are mine and
> mine alone. They do not reflect the opinions of Ci Technologies or its
> other employees or shareholders. The document is bound to me by all the
> usual laws, and may not be reproduced, etc., without my express
permission,
> etc. etc."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 4:50 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [recoznet2] Karen, Karen, Karen!
>
>
> How could you say that the Smallwood case was the police "simply doing
their
> job"? You say "every case is different" but you simply assume, in this
case,
> that anyone who thought, or said, that the police were exceeding their
> powers, was wrong and therefore deserved what she got.
>
> You say the police have "a lot more accountability these days". But truly,
> Karen, are you just wanking? When was the last time a policeman or
> policewoman in Australia was ever, ever, ever held to account for
exceeding
> their powers? You say "a lot carry micro-cassette recorders for these
exact
> reasons". That sounds to me like one of your increasingly obvious porkies,
> but let's give you the benefit of the doubt: can you point to a single
case
> where such a recorder vindicated any challenged policeman? No, let's be
more
> generous: can you point to any evidence, ever, where such a thing was even
> produced in court? Are you just lying to us, Karen?
>
> It's the same problem as before. You pretend that you're thinking this out
> rationally. But when it comes down to it, you find it easier to believe
that
> one race of people are sixteen times (God Almighty, _sixteen times_! even
> Dishonest John couldn't beat that!) more criminal than any other race,
> rather than admitting there might be something less than good reasons for
> police to act as they do. (Do you remember the infamous video of policemen
> making fun of Aboriginal suicides! But I guess you thought that was funny.
> Or you've forgotten. Ah well.)
>
> Do you know what "racism" is? It's judging individual people as if they
were
> a group, a race. But you don't think you're racist, I guess. C'mon, Karen,
> stop kidding yourself!
>
> Fellow Recoznetters: I'm sorry to say this, especially in the light of
what
> I've just been saying. (Do as I say...!) But I really think -- I rilly
rilly
> rilly think -- we shouldn't waste time on people like Karen. I sympathise
> with Karyn Fearnside's view: it would be good to win them over. But we're
> not going to do that. there are better things to spend time and effort on.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray
> Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 6:57 PM
> To: RecOzNet2
> Subject: [recoznet2] [Fwd: Reply to Tim Dunlop]
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Reply to Tim Dunlop
> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:32:07 +1100
> From: "Karen Crook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I would never actually state that police judge indigenous guilty more
> than
> non-indigenous. Because every case is different. Have a look at the
> recent
> incidetn where the professor up north allegedly called police officers
> the
> Ku Klux Klan - simply for doing their job!!!!!! And that quote coming
> from a
> person who has allegedly suffered racism all their life. We may never
> know
> the full story behind the slur and until we are actually present at an
> incident as such, we cannot judge who said what. Though in most cases I
> tend
> to believe the police as they have a lot more accountability these days
> and
> a lot carry micro-cassette recorders for these exact reasons.
>
> What I was saying was just that police have a tough enough job as it is
> and
> if they pick on someone a little more harshly it's probably because of a
> number of reasons. Either:
> - they know the offender or the people the offfender is with (and if
> they
> have a record then police know there could be trouble so they go in a
> bit
> more aggresively. Who's going to go softly with someone you know is
> dangerous?????????????),
> - the offender uses gutter trash language (if you were just a happy
> drunk
> chatting to the police they would probably just let you sleep it off,
> but if
> you start calling them all names under the sun and perhaps swinging and
> throwing rough punches, then you will be taken in most likely)
> - or they look like they will be trouble. And from this I mean
> presentation - their clothes, hats, shoes etc. Body language, facial
> expressions. All races have these sort of people you know but if they
> happen
> to be Aboriginal, then that is just bad luck.
>
> Everyoen knows the same rules apply in your own personal lives. You
> happen
> to be walking down the street at night after the movies and see a group
> of
> youths up ahead. They are young, drinking alcohol, loud, rude and
> throwing
> things. No one in their right mind would continue to walk past them, you
> either cross the street or get away anyway you can. I have doen it and
> it
> never had anything to do with the colour of their skin.
>
>
> "Then the question becomes, do we know that the police are racists? Well
> the
> fact that Aboriginal people are 16 times more likely to end up in jail
> suggests one of two things - either the law is being discriminately
> applied
> to Aboriginal people, or Aboriginal people are for some reason 16 times
> more
> likely to be criminals than non-Aboriginal people. If you reject racism
> as
> an issue then you have only the second option left. If that is the case,
> then the onus is back on you to suggest as to why it is Aboriginal
> people
> are substantially more criminal than other people. Is that what you are
> saying? What are your reasons?"
>
> My opinion is the second option. Just because there are 16 times more
> Aboriginals in the prisons does in no way suggest racism by officers. It
> proves to me that these Aboriginals have made some criminal error and
> are
> now paying for it. Just like everyone else should. The fact of the
> matter is
> that crime has a punishment and they have been caught for their criminal
> activities.
> Police are there to enforce the law and then they pass them on to the
> court
> system. It is not the police who put them in jail, it is the judge and
> the
> jury. And with the legal system in place, everything is accounted for as
> to
> why they sent them to jail. Don't go blaming the police for someone
> else's
> actions. You seem to blame the police in one instance and then suddenly
> blame the law. Who is it? You don't seem to make it clear who you think
> it
> is that is supposedly racist.
>
> Perhaps the reason behind the higher possibility of them offending is
> because of they way they have been brought up and the conditions they
> live
> in. I have seen black and white people who grow up in a household where
> there is no respect for anyone; alcohol, drug or sexual abuse and a
> total
> hate toward everyone who even looks their way. These people have usually
> gone on to be less productive with their lives than others. All you need
> then is for them to become teenagers, they start hanging around with
> other
> kids who are in the same situations and then you have trouble. They feel
> they have no one who cares about them. They need to show though they are
> strong and tough so to do this they often break the law - steal things,
> break windows, break into cars etc. I've seen kids like this, went to
> school
> with them and so too did my sisters. We were always brought up knowing
> the
> law and what was right and wrong. Sure we did some minor silly things
> but we
> certainly knew not to break the law to end up in jail. Serious crime
> gives
> you time. I know I'm not perfect but I do respect other people enough
> not to
> break into their homes and steal their TVs etc. These people who do have
> no
> respect and need to be told that it is WRONG!!!!!!
>
> I'd like to introduce to you a point of racism I encountered a few years
> back.
> In 1991 I completed grade 12 and didn't do so crash hot so I decided to
> repeat the year after. So in 1992 I was back in school with the class
> that
> had always behind below me. I worked my butt off this second time
> around.
> Stuck to myself, worked hard, did the homework, passed the exams and
> studied - and I held down a part-time job after school and on weekends.
> Finally the big day arrived and I discovered I had received an OP score
> of
> 9. I was very happy with that. I got accepted into three universities -
> Sydney, Coffs Harbour and Queensland. After much deliberating, I went to
> the
> college in Queensland where the cut-off score for my Bachelor degree
> course
> was 10 so my hard work had paid off. On the first day of lectures I
> discovered a familiar face. A guy that had been in my class when I
> repeated - it was his first time through year 12 (he was not a repeat).
> I found out that this guy had gotten into the course on an Aboriginal
> quota
> system and his OP score was 19!!!!! Now if that is not racist what is?
> We
> had both gone to school, he had the same opportunities to learn as I
> did, he
> was not disadvantaged in any way so why does he cruise through high
> school
> and basically fail but get into college?
> Whereas i fail and have to repeat and work my butt of to get into the
> course. Yes I'm angry, this sort of thing should not be happening these
> days. Aboriginal children still go to school so don't tell me they don't
> have the same chances as everyone else.
> By giving them special favours because of their colour/culture, the
> Aboriginal people are making racism problems for themselves. People
> become
> disheartened when there is no fairness and then they turn around and
> blame
> everyone else for being racist.
> If you want to stop racism, then stop making everything Aboriginal and
> non-Aboriginal. Everyone deserves a chance, whether they are black or
> white.
>
> Karen
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