Matthew,
You make some very good points but when we start prejudging according to
politial affiliation we will be lost. What's next? Religion?
No doubt, we all have amongst our many personal prejudices, ideas about
which side of politics is 'better' - I know, I do - but it never fails
to amaze me how often the kick in the backside comes from the side I
wasn't keeping an eye on!
As far as a politically exclusionary list goes...I don't think we'd want
totally open slather... but the first concern is commitment to justice
for Aboriginal Australian.
Trudy
tassy wrote:
>
> Trudy,
> I agree with what you say about political affiliation being
>unimportant - just.
>
> But there comes a time when political affiliation does become important.
>For now, it matters not to
> hear all this revisionism from the conservative side of politics, "oh well, stealing
>children away from their
> mothers wasn't really all that genocidal" etc.. It's a sublime statement of racial
>prejudice, and if I may say
> so, very appeasing. After all, the aim is to win over the "middle ground". Very
>reasonable, and British. It
> reminds one of Lord Beaverbrook's conservatism, or Lord Reith's on the BBC, where
>altogether it would be a
> horrid thing to make mountains out of molehills when it comes to such distressing
>matters. It was a basis for
> Maggie Thatchers' appeassment of Apartheid South Africa there for a while in the
>mid-80's. Personally, I
> think it's more annoying than dangerous, this macho "civilised" liberal chic. To be
>truthful, there's a bit of
> the metaphsyical academic nature in all of us. After all, being honest, you would
>say that the BBC or the ABC
> is less imperialist than other broadcasting networks, and yet history shows you
>would probably be wrong.
>
> But I know you don't want a politically exclusionary list, and your job
>is an awful tough one,
> which you do well, so I'm satisfied.
>
> Cheers,
> Matthew Davis
>
> Trudy & Rod Bray wrote:
>
> > Laurie,
> >
> > I find your post offensive.
> >
> > Yes, Graham's approach is a conservative one but it is genuine
> > never-the-less. Liberal Party membership does not equate an inability to
> > work for reconciliation just as Labor Pary membership does not prevent
> > blatant racism.
> >
> > Since no one else has been asked to state their political affiliations I
> > don't see why Graham has to and your post amounts to a personal attack
> > against Graham. Argue with his statements not his politics and don't
> > imply that being a conservative politically is the same as being a
> > racist.
> >
> > Trudy
> >
> > Laurie Forde wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion, if Graham's suggestions were followed, a just Reconciliation
> > > would be impossible.
> > >
> > > As far as I know, Graham Young was the Liberal Party campaign manager in
> > > the 1996 Queensland election and has a long history of association with the
> > > Liberal Party.
> > >
> > > You are that Graham Young aren't you Graham?
> > >
> > > If you are,I believe you should inform list members of your past and
> > > current employment record with Conservative groups, before you attempt to
> > > defend the racist approach to Reconciliation of Howard, Herron and
> > > anson.( Australia's H H H.),on Recoznet 2.
> > >
> > > Are you still in the employ of the Liberal Party or any other group with an
> > > interest in the outcome of political events in Australia, particularly with
> > > regard to Indigenous Rights?
> > >
> > > Please state if you have a vested interest in such matters , if you have
> > > not already done so----I may have missed your declaration.
> > >
> > > Laurie.
> > >
> > > Laurie Forde [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eleanor Brand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 11:08 PM
> > > Subject: [recoznet2] I don't think so, Graham.
> > >
> > > >Graham,
> > > >
> > > >I don't agree with your arguments at all. I don't see the point in looking
> > > >at the semantics of the debate, and using them to justify or at least
> > > soften
> > > >the liberal government's position. Perhaps there wasn't an entire
> > > generation
> > > >of children stolen from their families, but generations upon generations of
> > > >Aboriginal people were effected by the systematic removal of Aboriginal
> > > >children. I don't think you could possibly put any sort of percentage on
> > > >what happened, and I don't think you can say that Herron was correct,
> > > >semantically, logically, statistically or in any other way.
> > > >
> > > >But if you want to talk about semantics, I think calling Herron's statement
> > > >a 'blunder' is about as offensive and inappropriate as calling the history
> > > >of genocide in this country (and yes, it was genocide and I will continue
> > > to
> > > >call it genocide) a 'blemish' on Australia's 'proud history'(Howard's
> > > >interpretation of events).
> > > >
> > > >I do agree that the process of reconciliation is harder for Indigenous
> > > >Australians, because they have to forgive us, and I think largely the steps
> > > >towards reconciliation so far, including the draft statement of
> > > >reconciliation, have been more about white Australia feeling warm and fuzzy
> > > >than tackling the real issues - bringing the true history of Australia to
> > > >the forefront of the collective consciouness of Australian people,
> > > >understanding exactly what has happened, what is continuing to happen, and
> > > >that we're are all intrinsically connected to the racist ideological
> > > >framework which exists today in Australian society and it is up to each and
> > > >every one of us to challenge it.
> > > >
> > > >I think it is outrageous to suggest that Indigenous Australians should get
> > > >up and forgive Herron, Newman and Howard for their continued ignorance,
> > > >offensiveness and blatant racism, when Howard not only refuses to say sorry
> > > >for what has happened so far, but actually continues to try to justify it.
> > > >Why on earth SHOULD Indigenous Australia forgive them? Do you REALLY think
> > > >that's going to aid the process of bringing white and black Australia
> > > >together?
> > > >
> > > >I think such a move would do nothing but hinder reconciliation in the true
> > > >sense. The 'ordinary Australians' you speak of need to know that the stolen
> > > >generations DID happen, and there is probably not one Indigenous person
> > > >whose life has not been touched by it. Reconciliation will not happen if
> > > >'ordinary Australians' continue to think that only a few children were
> > > >taken, it was in their best interest and it's not really that big a deal.
> > > >Reconciliation in the true sense will NOT be warm and fuzzy. I don't think
> > > >it is just a case of "I'm sorry" "aw that's ok, I forgive you".
> > > >
> > > >And although I do think Charlie could have phrased what he was essentially
> > > >saying better, I say good on him! And good on any Australian, black or
> > > >white, who is going to take the time during the olympics to get out there
> > > in
> > > >the public eye and say what the liberals are doing and saying will not be
> > > >forgiven, and in fact it will NOT BE TOLERATED. Yes, direct action can be
> > > >alienating, confronting and intimidating to 'ordinary Australians'. But
> > > >perhaps if more Australians understood and acknowledged what has happened
> > > >over the last 200 years, and what is continuing to happen, then more
> > > >Australians would take a stand against it and join the fight against racism
> > > >in Australia.
> > > >
> > > >And why on earth is likening the genocide of Indigenous Australians to the
> > > >holocaust 'unhelpful'? I find it hard to believe that the idea of social
> > > >darwinism and the belief that some humans are superior to others have been
> > > >'put paid to' by liberal democracy. I am quite sure, in fact, that there is
> > > >still a wide spread sentiment of white supremacy. And I personally don't
> > > see
> > > >a history which involves food supplies and water holes being poisoned, a
> > > >history which involves babies being buried up to their necks in the sand
> > > and
> > > >having their heads kicked off, of whole communities of black women being
> > > >raped as a history in which people's 'physical lives were being preserved'.
> > > >Killings were state sanctioned, industrially efficient, they were
> > > >calculated, widespread, deliberate and genocidal.
> > > >
> > > >Yes, talking about that stuff is threatening, it's shocking, it's heart
> > > >breaking in fact. But it's the truth, and as far as I'm concerned,
> > > >reconciliation has not happened in a society which chooses to ignore and
> > > >deny that such atrocities happened.
> > > >
> > > >As for Karen, well...I think she should be booted from the list, and I
> > > don't
> > > >think implying that she is a white supremicist is inappropriate given the
> > > >comments she comes out with. The KKK is not just a group of Americans
> > > >running around in the middle of the night draped in white sheets, they
> > > exist
> > > >here in Australia and i think their beliefs are actually held, perhaps to a
> > > >lesser extent, but essentially the same ideas, by quite a few Australians.
> > > >
> > > >Lastly, I know that we're basically on the same side Graham, we're both
> > > >concerned about the future of reconciliation, and about ending racism. I
> > > >just think it's really important to be critical of this conception of
> > > >reconciliation as a process where white Australia doesn't really progress
> > > in
> > > >terms of the racist ideology we're indoctrinated with and that each of us
> > > >harbours in our psyches, but rather black Australians forgive us for it and
> > > >we just try and move on. We can't possibly move on without being
> > > challenged.
> > > >And we have to challenge ourselves and each other - it's shouldn't just be
> > > >up to Charlie Perkins and the rest of Indigenous Australia.
> > > >
> > > >Eleanor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >______________________________________________________
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