That's fine. Turns out you were right. But all signs pointed to him being a special ballplayer. Japanese players can have success here, Nomo, Sasaki, and he was supposed to be the best of them all.
I think where the Sox fell short was in measuring his desire to play here vs. his desire to score a big payday. It's clear to me at least that he was much more interested in the latter. On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > I guess it boils down to this. I was never excited about Dice-K. I > consider signing a Japanese pitcher to be similar to signing a National > League pitcher or even a AAA pitcher. This was not the same as getting an > established American League ace, but we paid ace money. > > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Steve Gendron <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I guess we could argue all day about what is “foolish use of money”. It >> is easy to look back and say it was foolish to sign Dice-K for that amount >> of money, but at the time you could make a case that it was a reasonable >> investment. It was an investment that was well within the means of the >> team. It didn’t threaten the solvency of the organization and it brought us >> a much needed piece of what turned out to be a championship team. >> >> >> >> My advice is to stop worrying about John Henry’s tax return. The team >> should make all the “wise” investments in scouting and building quality >> “home-grown” talent (as they have done with Youk, Pedroia, Elsbury, >> Papelbon…), but not be afraid to make the large investments in quality free >> agents. Sometimes those investments will work out, and sometimes they >> won’t, but it does not make them foolish. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ray Salemi >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 04, 2011 2:02 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Dice-K >> >> >> >> It is certainly possible to win and be foolish with your money. But I >> think we have a better chance of winning if we're smart. >> >> On Jun 4, 2011, at 9:25 AM, Steve Gendron <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> My point is that the only measure of success in MLB is winning or >> losing. If the Sox do not win, I take no solace in the fact that their >> ledger is well balanced. >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ray Salemi >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 04, 2011 12:43 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Dice-K >> >> >> >> How is losing the World Series a wise use of money? >> >> On Jun 3, 2011, at 9:38 PM, Steve Gendron <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> So, as a fan, you would be happier if the Sox lost the World Series , >> but had a lower payroll? >> >> >> >> [image: http://www.cadence.com/mail/footer_gray_640.gif] >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ray Salemi >> *Sent:* Friday, June 03, 2011 8:15 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Dice-K >> >> >> >> I consider the wise use of money to be part of the skill of the MLB game. >> So, just as I criticized idiocy in Lugo, I complain about money wasted on >> DiceK >> >> . >> >> >> On Jun 3, 2011, at 4:58 PM, Steve Gendron <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> It is hard to argue that $20M per year (including the $50M fee) is a >> fair price for any player. The money in baseball is just stupid. However, >> it was about the going rate for an experienced pitcher with his credentials >> at 26 years of age. Most pitchers have their best years ahead of them at >> that age. It was a calculated risk that didn’t work out as well as the team >> had hoped. >> >> >> >> Furthermore, Dice K was not terrible. 2007 was pretty good, and it >> culminated with a game 7 win over the Indians in the ALCS, and a game 3 win >> over the Rockies in the WS. 2008 was outstanding. At that point, I think >> we would have all agreed that it was worth the investment to bring Dice to >> the Sox. At 28 years old, who would have predicted it would be all downhill >> from there. >> >> >> >> And I revert to my usual position. It is not up to the fans to worry >> about player salaries. The Red Sox are underpaying some players and >> overpaying others. It all comes out in the wash. The franchise is a HUGE >> moneymaker. John Henry makes a fortune whether he pays Dice-K $20M or >> $200K. Why do we care how much additional profit he makes on the team? >> Bring me the best players and bring me championships and I will continue >> buying the tickets, hot dogs, beers, shirts, hats, and season subscriptions >> to NESN. It is a win-win. >> >> >> >> I am sad to see the Dice-K era come to an end. I was always hopeful he >> would turn it around and fulfill his promise. >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dan DiBiase >> *Sent:* Friday, June 03, 2011 6:47 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Dice-K >> >> >> >> Larry, actually, 2011 was his last year signed with the Sox, so he's >> effectively done. >> >> It seemed like a lot of money for ANY pitcher at the time, and very few >> 'experts' sounded a note of caution. And he was an excellent >> pitcher in Japan, but it just didn't seem like his skills translated here. >> Too many pitches, too much of a 'backwards' pitcher, too stubborn >> to use his fastball, too disinclined to get into shape. Ah well, it only >> cost the Sox money, at least we didn't have to send any prospects >> away for him (although would they have been more reluctant to sent Casey >> Kelly to SD in the Gonzalez deal if we didn't have Dice-K?). >> >> >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Larry Rupp <[email protected]> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Sent:* Thu, June 2, 2011 8:36:14 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Dice-K >> >> The lack of traffic on this topic has me believe either our group is all >> on a long Memorial Day holiday or just doesn't care anymore for dice - >> either way it would appear we no longer have to worry about him on the >> roster this season however didn't we lock him up for 6 years - 2 good years, >> 2 bad years, this season and next year? The pitching market is not looking >> good this year - Yankees are already looking and have come up empty thus far >> and will drive prices high for the limited pitchers potentially on the >> market. Settle in for some knuckleballs - and Salty having more >> passballs... >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Dan DiBiase <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Looks like he will be getting Tommy John-san surgery, effectively ending >> his time with the Sox. >> >> >> http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/06/as_daisuke_mats.html >> >> >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Author of Robot > Haiku<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1440511977?ie=UTF8&tag=rayspicks&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1440511977> > : Poems > for humans to read until their robots decide it's kill time. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en.
