Perhaps someone should do some legal research into NY law to see exactly what the pre-existing law is re: rental of housing, etc., by religious organizations. I'm sure that would shed some light on this conversation. Without it, we're all just speculating.
I believe that the language referring to the "taking [of] such action as is calculated by such organization to promote the religious principles for which it is established or maintained" also appears in other NY statutes and, at least in the employment context, limits the co-religionist exemption -- that is, the organization may not just exclude non-co-religionists per se. It must show why it is necessary to do so to promote its principles. Here the language is in the conjunctive, so the warrant may be broader. But recall that the new SSM law says "Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to bar . . ." which can't possibly be read as an authorization to do anything that was otherwise barred (if it's otherwise barred, the other laws that bar the conduct remain in effect). On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:49 PM, <hamilto...@aol.com> wrote: > Howard-- You say one "merely preserves the existing exemption" Do you > know if that provision was ever used by a religious organization to > refuse to rent to homosexuals in an apartment building owned by a religious > institution but not otherwise devoted to religious use? > > I've never seen this "rental of housing accommodations" before. Given the > nationwide push by the Catholic Conference and CLS, among others, to > avoid having to rent to renters whose morals they disapprove, I wonder if > this language aided such activity before or if it is a new possibility. The > plain language does not preclude this scenario. > > > Marci > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friedman, Howard M. <howard.fried...@utoledo.edu> > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>; > Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > Cc: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2011 7:57 pm > Subject: RE: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law > > The new New York same-sex marriage bill has several different-- and > apparently hastily drafted--exemptions. One merely preserves the existing > exemption in NY Executive Law Sec. 296. Sec 296 provides: > > Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to bar any > religious or denominational institution or organization, or any > organization operated for charitable or educational purposes, which is > operated, supervised or controlled by or in connection with a religious > organization, from limiting employment or sales or rental of housing > accommodations or admission to or giving preference to persons of the > same religion or denomination or from taking such action as is > calculated by such organization to promote the religious principles for > which it is established or maintained. > > Another provision in the new same-sex marriage bill protects a long list of > institutions if they deny "services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, > goods or privileges for the solemnization or celebration of a marriage." > One of the sets of organizations protected are those listed in New York's > Benevolent Orders Law. That law lists 58 different organizations by name in > Sec. 2. Presumably drafters were concerned with protecting Knights of > Columbus from having to rent their halls for same-sex weddings. KofC is > listed in Sec. 2. But so are numerous other organizations that are not > religious in nature-- e.g. the American Legion which apparently now can > refuse to rent out its facilities for same-sex ceremonies. Though I am not > sure that any of these would have been considered a "public accommodation" > subject to NY's anti-discrimination law in the first place. > > Howard Friedman > > -----Original Message----- > From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu on behalf of Saperstein, David > Sent: Sun 6/26/2011 3:30 PM > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > Cc: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > Subject: Re: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law > > Marty, > > Are you suggesting there is no religious tenet component to the title Vii > exemption? It is just on religious identity? And if a tenet component? How > does it apply to this question? > > David > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 26, 2011, at 2:24 PM, "Marty Lederman" <lederman.ma...@gmail.com< > mailto:lederman.ma...@gmail.com <lederman.ma...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > > A very small, peripheral point: Chip writes that under current NY law, "if > a religious organization owns and operates an assisted living facility, and > it excludes occupants on religious grounds, and it preaches against same-sex > intimacy, it probably would be free to exclude same-sex partners." > > I have no idea what the existing NY religious exemption looks like -- > perhaps it simply exempts religious organizations from the > antidiscrimination rules for assisted living facilities generally, in which > case Chip's example is surely correct. But if, instead, such organizations > only have an exemption to favor *coreligionists,* as under title VII -- > i.e., in Chip's words, to "exclude occupants on [certain] religious > grounds," namely, that they are not coreligionists -- and *if* such an > organization permits only its own coreligionists to live in the facilities > (unlikely but not inconceivable), then it likely could not exclude same-sex > partners who are of the favored religion. The coreligionists exception, > that is to say, is not a license to discriminate on the basis of other > prohibited criteria (race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.) merely because > such discrimination is religiously motivated -- it only permits > discrimination in favor of coreligionists. > > On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Ira Lupu > <<mailto:icl...@law.gwu.edu<icl...@law.gwu.edu> > >icl...@law.gwu.edu<mailto:icl...@law.gwu.edu <icl...@law.gwu.edu>>> > wrote: > Whatever the current law in NY is, this doesn't change it. So if a > religious organization owns and operates an assisted living facility, and it > excludes occupants on religious grounds, and it preaches against same-sex > intimacy, it probably would be free to exclude same-sex partners. Their > marital status wouldn't change this. I very much doubt that the > organization's power to discriminate extends to investment property. But > that's a question of NY Human Rights law, and perhaps someone can enlighten > on those details. The important point about the the same-sex marriage law > is that it appears to leave that power to discriminate (whatever its scope) > undisturbed. > > > On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 4:49 PM, > <<mailto:hamilto...@aol.com<hamilto...@aol.com> > >hamilto...@aol.com<mailto:hamilto...@aol.com <hamilto...@aol.com>>> > wrote: > How do folks read the "rental of housing" language? What if a religious > organization owns rental property as an investment--does this mean they can > reject gay partners even if the property is not otherwise used for religious > purposes? > Does this differ from current law? > > Marci > > > Marci A. Hamilton > Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law > Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law > Yeshiva University > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marty Lederman > <<mailto:lederman.ma...@gmail.com<lederman.ma...@gmail.com> > >lederman.ma...@gmail.com<mailto:lederman.ma...@gmail.com<lederman.ma...@gmail.com> > >> > Sender: > <mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu>> > religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu< > mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu> > > > Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 16:24:50 > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics<< > mailto:religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> > religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > >> > Reply-To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics << > mailto:religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> > religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > >> > Subject: Re: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to > <mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> > Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see < > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to > <mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> > Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see < > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > > > -- > Ira C. Lupu > F. Elwood & Eleanor Davis Professor of Law > George Washington University Law School > 2000 H St., NW > Washington, DC 20052 > (202)994-7053<tel:%28202%29994-7053> > My SSRN papers are here: > <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=181272#reg> > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=181272#reg > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to > <mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> > Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see < > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to > <mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> > Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see < > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw> > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. > Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can > read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the > messages to others. > > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > -- Ira C. Lupu F. Elwood & Eleanor Davis Professor of Law George Washington University Law School 2000 H St., NW Washington, DC 20052 (202)994-7053 My SSRN papers are here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=181272#reg
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
