True, the racist regime was pretty well entwined with religious institutions and believers, as were their chief opponents. "Cooperation" undersells the relationship between racists and the Jim Crow states. It was an outright takeover of the state apparatus by a faction to the direct detriment of everyone else and the polity as a whole. (And, as I'm sure Dr. King would have rushed to point out, to the detriment of the racists themselves). The issue isn't whether discrimination because of same sex marriage (or orientation, or transgender identity) is better or worse than any other kind of discrimination but the sheer scale of Jim Crow compared to RFRA on steroids. Maybe they're both the sorts of bigotry at which good men and women recoil - but as an issue of policy, they are rather different.
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 6:39 PM, <hamilto...@aol.com> wrote: > Racism was supported and encouraged by believers. Religion and clergy > played a critical role in making the Jim Crow south what it was. It wasn't > just the state. > It was the cooperation of racist believers and the government. > > > Marci A. Hamilton > Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law > Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law > Yeshiva University > 55 Fifth Avenue > New York, NY 10003 > (212) 790-0215 > http://sol-reform.com > <https://www.facebook.com/professormarciahamilton?fref=ts> > <https://twitter.com/marci_hamilton> > > -----Original Message----- > From: tznkai <tzn...@gmail.com> > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> > Sent: Wed, Feb 26, 2014 6:37 pm > Subject: Re: Statistics on believers and same-sex marriage > > Racial segregation in America wasn't a simple matter of state > governments enabling racists through carve outs or even a broad grant of > rights. Racial segregation under Jim Crow involved the state forcing racist > ideology. There is a colorable difference between allowing a minister or > justice of the peace to opt out of marrying a couple and making it illegal > to do so. > > If there is any danger (and I'm not convinced) in returning to > segregation, it does not lie in the religious exemption, but granting that > exemption to employers, which allows them to enforce that belief onto their > employees, who will be left with the same out that Prof. Laycock finds so > disturbing for small business owners: leave and find another. > > -Kevin Chen > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Sisk, Gregory C. <gcs...@stthomas.edu>wrote: > >> No such logic exists. Your inference omits my express reference to the >> requirement of a substantial burden and the omission of a compelling public >> interest. A return to racial segregation and inability to receive services >> on the basis of race would easily qualify as a compelling public interest. >> The narrow question presented in these cases is whether a religious >> minority may decline to participate in a ceremonial message with which they >> disagree, especially when alternative venues and services are readily >> available and thus no actual burden is imposed on anyone. >> >> Gregory Sisk >> Laghi Distinguished Chair in Law >> University of St. Thomas School of Law (Minnesota) >> MSL 400, 1000 LaSalle Avenue >> Minneapolis, MN 55403-2005 >> 651-962-4923 >> gcs...@stthomas.edu >> http://personal.stthomas.edu/GCSISK/sisk.html<http://personal2.stthomas.edu/GCSISK/sisk.html> >> Publications: http://ssrn.com/author=44545 >> >> *From:* religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto: >> religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] *On Behalf Of *Greg Lipper >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2014 2:55 PM >> >> *To:* Law & Religion issues for Law Academics >> *Subject:* Re: Statistics on believers and same-sex marriage >> >> I appreciate your consistency - and your acknowledgement that the logic >> underlying the Arizona legislation would enable a return to racial >> discrimination and segregation (at least when motivated by religious >> beliefs). >> >> >> On Feb 26, 2014, at 3:40 PM, Sisk, Gregory C. <gcs...@stthomas.edu> >> wrote: >> >> >> Yes, I do support religious liberty claims for religious minorities, >> when a substantial burden on exercise of faith is shown and a compelling >> government interest is missing. I do not limit my support for religious >> liberty to those exercises of religion that correspond to my own views, for >> that is not freedom at all. I've consistently defended claims by multiple >> religious minorities, from Muslims to American Indian groups and on to >> Orthodox Jews, as well as evangelical Christians and Catholics. Nor is my >> plea to accommodate the small business owner limited to a particular type >> of objection. An events photographer should be free, as a matter of both >> free exercise of religion and freedom of speech, to decline to photograph >> events that communicate a message with which she disagrees, whether that be >> a military deployment send-off event (because she is a pacifist) or a >> same-sex marriage ceremony (because she adheres to traditional religious >> perspectives on sexual morality) or, for that matter, a Catholic First >> Communion (because she regards the Catholic Church as oppressive). >> >> Gregory Sisk >> Laghi Distinguished Chair in Law >> University of St. Thomas School of Law (Minnesota) >> MSL 400, 1000 LaSalle Avenue >> Minneapolis, MN 55403-2005 >> 651-962-4923 >> gcs...@stthomas.edu >> >> http://personal.stthomas.edu/GCSISK/sisk.html<http://personal2.stthomas.edu/GCSISK/sisk.html> >> Publications: http://ssrn.com/author=44545 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see >> http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw >> >> Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as >> private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are >> posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or >> wrongly) forward the messages to others. >> > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. > Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can > read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the > messages to others. > > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. >
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
