Hello!
After finishing so many excellent discussion, I think a trivial appeared
but serious indeed problem is omitted. That is politics. In fact, Facebook,
Youtube,and even Google load or cover many contents forbidden by some
countries, so the goverments stop their people to visit the whole sites though
they also know there are still many useful things on them, but they can't
support the selection of the so called good things for their people . Of
course, the managers of the above sites also reject to filter the contens
forbidden by the country law.
So I think at least the maillist is better now but not Facebook or other
so called "free"states, unless you want to set up a site only for USA,UK and
some other countries. well, if so, I think it is Rietveld group of the WEST,
but not Rietveld group of the WORLD, :))
Dr.Haohong Chen
Shanghai Institute of Ceramics
CAS
P.R.China
======= 2015-06-11 19:29:00 您在来信中写道：=======
>Well,
>Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in (formally) two different
>ways :-) And you shouldn't forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie
>while typing.
>Lubo
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:
>
>>
>> Not a great deal of difference between these entities, IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> James P. Cline
>> Materials Measurement Science Division
>> National Institute of Standards and Technology
>> 100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
>> Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523 USA
>> jcl...@nist.gov
>> (301) 975 5793
>> FAX (301) 975 5334
>>
>>
>>
>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf
>> Of Darren Broom
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
>> To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> On a related note, with regard to accessing Facebook at work, I generally
>> only use it to keep in touch with friends; and I try to avoid mixing the
>> two. I'm sure I'm not alone in doing this.
>>
>> For work-related activities, etc, I tend to use LinkedIn.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Darren
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
>> Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +0000
>> To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>> As one of the younger members of the list, I would like to add a few
>> points.
>>
>>
>>
>> I may never have found this list on my own if my advisor was not kind enough
>> to point it out to me. I have never seen a mailing list before in my life :)
>> To that end social media outlets may be helpful for newcomers. But I am
>> very happy to be a member and will gladly learn/join whatever format is
>> chosen. So many people helped me get to where I am today by kindly answering
>> my basic questions that I feel obligated to do the same for other
>> newcomers.
>>
>>
>>
>> I strongly believe in open-mindedness toward the new. Regardless, I think
>> that social media may be most useful for publicity and outreach if we wish
>> to seek out new members, but I don't think social media formats
>> are friendly to discussion. Facebook's format, for example, would not allow
>> for easy archiving of replies and they would easily become buried as time
>> passed. Another problem with social media is that for those who are at work
>> or school, being seen on facebook or other social media may be forbidden if
>> not frowned upon, even if they were being honestly productive.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that fewer streams of consciousness are preferable. If we wish to
>> move at all, I propose that a forum format may be the best for
>> consideration?
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr <rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> on behalf of
>> Daxu Liu <daxu...@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
>> To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear prof. Suescun,
>>
>> I agree with you, and I have written to you some times ago. You do be an
>> enthusiastic and generous man. Thank you very much!
>>
>> Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic points on crystallography and some
>> basic steps on how to use some refinement programmes, and I was one of them.
>> However, someone has no choice to ask someone for help because he/she maybe
>> study oneself, and crystallography is not his/her major. I was crazy on the
>> Rietveld method in the past just for the interest, and I had to write to
>> some people for help because I can not solve some problems even after I
>> searched the answers in Google or other search engines. I am very
>> appreciated for those people who helped me like you and Dr. Toby, Brian H.,
>> and Dr. Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other respectable and kind people.
>>
>> I have studied the Rietveld method for eight years myself through the web
>> and reading some books, and I have published few papers on it, which are
>> colsely related to my research areas.
>>
>> In a word, I feel, if you know about it and have spare time, it will be
>> possible to encourage and help someone greatly when you answer his or her
>> some basic questions (maybe stupied questions,:) ).
>>
>> Best regards, Daxu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> From: Leopoldo Suescun <leopo...@fq.edu.uy>
>> To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr" <rietveld_l@ill.fr>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that
>> are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for
>> assistance in facebook.
>>
>> One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at
>> minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and
>> rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students whose knowledge
>> was evidently far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful
>> refinement, or question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for
>> a very young and untrained student to join our list and ask very basic
>> questions.
>>
>> I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never come to
>> us on a first basis and probably shouldn?t, but that will eventually be ready
>> for the list after some time.
>>
>> One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social media
>> channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see below) are on
>> Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" and not quite
>> colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of careers, teaching
>> programs, events, job advertising, and even knowledge, so denying that
>> Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may be of help to disseminate the
>> Rietveld Method in particular and knowledge in general is like denying
>> reality.
>>
>> I?m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude of the
>> companies that manage these social networks is favorable for spreading
>> science or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea that we use the
>> networks to allow younger colleagues becoming crystallographers to learn the
>> science from scientists and eventually lead them to the Rietveld List when
>> they have enough knowledge to ask meaningful questions.
>>
>> Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated in
>> discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by all
>> possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards modern
>> (not necessarily better, I agree) tools.
>>
>> As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list and
>> Research Gate I?ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever other forum
>> I?m
>> at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper understanding to walk the
>> way by themselves reading books, papers and why not the Rietveld Mailing
>> Archive, and eventually seeking support from well trained scientists in the
>> Rietveld List. And I foresee many links in Facebook to the
>> rietveld_list_archives for everyone to use this accumulated knowledge,
>> while Mark Zuckerberg tries to sell them X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs
>> or X-plane tickets or whatever the automatic software that drops
>> advertisement in our screen understands of what we talk about...
>>
>> With best regards,
>>
>> Leo
>>
>> * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 minute
>> search:
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846298?f
>> ref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/usnistgov?fref=ts
>>
>> need more?
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-06-10 16:29 GMT-03:00 AICr2014 <cristalogra...@fq.edu.uy>:
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather advanced students and scientists that
>> are rather fanatic, not for the kind of beginners that may look for
>> assistance in facebook.
>>
>> One of such students will find our discussions impossible to understand at
>> minimum if not simply crazy, full of self-references, old discussions and
>> rivalries. We have even read some rude replies to students whose knowledge
>> was evidently far below the minimum required to perform a meaningful
>> refinement, or question to the list. So maybe it would not be advisable for
>> a very young and untrained student to join our list and ask very basic
>> questions.
>>
>> I think the facebook page will reach to other public that will never come to
>> us on a first basis and probably shouldn?t, but that will eventually be ready
>> for the list after some time.
>>
>> One point in favor of the facebook discussion group or other social media
>> channels is that all of our Universities and Institutes(*see below) are on
>> Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc, and more and more "younger" and not quite
>> colleagues are using them too, for dissemination of careers, teaching
>> programs, events, job advertising, and even knowledge, so denying that
>> Facebook, Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may be of help to disseminate the
>> Rietveld Method in particular and knowledge in general is like denying
>> reality.
>>
>> I?m not going to judge if the for-profit, business oriented attitude of the
>> companies that manage these social networks is favorable for spreading
>> science or not (probably not), but it may be a good idea that we use the
>> networks to allow younger colleagues becoming crystallographers to learn the
>> science from scientists and eventually lead them to the Rietveld List when
>> they have enough knowledge to ask meaningful questions.
>>
>> Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in Facebook and I have participated in
>> discussion where it is is looking for ways to spread the knowledge by all
>> possible means, so I bet authorities will salute this move towards modern
>> (not necessarily better, I agree) tools.
>>
>> As much as I have replied to crystallography questions in this list and
>> Research Gate I?ll do the same on Facebook, Twitter or whatever other forum
>> I?m
>> at, and will suggest students seeking for deeper understanding to walk the
>> way by themselves reading books, papers and why not the Rietveld Mailing
>> Archive, and eventually seeking support from well trained scientists in the
>> Rietveld List. And I foresee many links in Facebook to the
>> rietveld_list_archives for everyone to use this accumulated knowledge,
>> while Mark Zuckerberg tries to sell them X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs
>> or X-plane tickets or whatever the automatic software that drops
>> advertisement in our screen understands of what we talk about...
>>
>> With best regards,
>>
>> Leo
>>
>> * List of important labs and universities I found in Facebook in 1 minute
>> search:
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846298?f
>> ref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts
>>
>> need more?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Enviado desde mi m?vil.
>> Prof. Dr. Leopoldo Suescun
>> Cryssmat-Lab/DETEMA, Facultad de Qu?mica, Universidad de la Rep?blica,
>> Montevideo, Uruguay.
>>
>> El jun 9, 2015 4:15 AM, "Radovan Cerny" <radovan.ce...@unige.ch> escribi?:
>>
>> Too many channels = crystallographer's death (freely translated from an old
>> proverb "Too many hunters= rabbit's death).
>>
>> Rather to express my opinion that if you have too many options where to look
>> for an info, you spend too much time before you find it.
>> Why the troglodytes should learn Facebook? Why do not the younger and more
>> up-to-date researcher use the email?
>>
>>
>> Radovan Cerny
>> Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
>> Universit? de Gen?ve
>> 24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
>> CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
>> Phone : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX : [+[41] 22] 37 961 08
>> mailto : radovan.ce...@unige.ch
>> URL : http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
>>
>>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De la part
>> de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO
>> Envoy? : mardi 9 juin 2015 08:15
>> ? : rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> Objet : Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> hehe, well played Lubo. People can define themselves as they wish, the
>> problem is the impression we produce in others with our self-definitions.
>> still the more channels people have to reach information , the best, and as
>> someone says before, if it does not work it will fade out with no damage.
>>
>>
>> Quoting Lubomir Smrcok <uachs...@savba.sk>:
>>
>> > Dear Luis,
>> >
>> > I always find weird and sort of funny when someone cannot accept that
>> > some people could call themselves troglodites meaning that they are
>> > not very enthusiastic about ALL what other people call new and
>> > progressive or even an innovation. This is how I understand Larry's
>> > comment.
>> >
>> > Personally, though I am younger than him I do not feel like a
>> > second-rate human being or depleted of any important scientific
>> > information when I completely ignore facebook and its clones. This way
>> > of communication or, better, its information contents, strongly
>> > resembles that described in Brave New World by A.Huxley. Though
>> > published in 1932, it has been somehow ahead of the times.
>> >
>> > A word of warning for facebookers : be careful, this is a book (check
>> > the word with any good on-line service). Fortunately, it is offered
>> > also for Kindle so no worry for being seen with a pretty thick piece
>> > of paper.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Lubo
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> Although not an active player on this list, except maybe in my early
>> >> days in late 90,s,(science , took me in a different
>> >> direction) I still keep track of what is happening in "the Refinement
>> >> world" and i would like to add my thoughts on this non technical
>> >> matter.
>> >> The generation of people called millennials and young scientists
>> >> among them, get inform through facebook and similar. That link them
>> >> to several sources of information without attaching them to one
>> >> single source .
>> >>
>> >> A facebook page related and linked to this discussion group could be
>> >> the gate to new researchers (students) to this page and have a
>> >> positive influence on the size of this community and their access to
>> >> the very specific questions and knowledge that are usually discussed
>> >> here. Their alternative can be the use of the potent available
>> >> software to have results without guidance (e.g after , no sensible
>> >> responses have been obtained through linkedyn or research gate, to
>> >> name some, because nobody with the right expertise is there). It does
>> >> not have to be a different or parallel discussion group, and it does
>> >> not imply that you have to join or use any new group. it is most
>> >> likely to have a positive effect or maybe just null in the worst
>> >> scenario.
>> >>
>> >> In a more personal opinion , i always find weird and sort of funny,
>> >> when people, whose work is to develop and spread knowledge, is proud
>> >> to be a "troglodite" and do not dare to experience innovation.
>> >> Facebook does not change the way Science "should" be done but it may
>> >> change the way of communicating .
>> >>
>> >> Please dont take offence for my last comment , that is out of my purpose.
>> >> Best regards
>> >> Luis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Quoting Reinhard Kleeberg <kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>:
>> >>
>> >>> To be honest, I can't imagine that crystallographic knowledge can be
>> >>> effectively transmitted via facebook. Probably one could safe time
>> >>> by reading some basic textbooks instead of "liking" and "following".
>> >>> The same holds for other "asocial" (Lubo, I like this
>> >>> statement!) networks like researchgate, what also waste the time
>> >>> even of uninvolved people by spamming, just for generating profits
>> >>> by the companies.
>> >>>
>> >>> The central points have already been fixed by Alan:
>> >>>
>> >>> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
>> >>> aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
>> >>> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured archive
>> >>> of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have an account.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is like science should be. Alan, thank you very much for all
>> >>> your altruistic efforts with the list!
>> >>> Greetings
>> >>>
>> >>> Reinhard
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Am 08/06/2015 um 14:00 schrieb Davide Levy:
>> >>>> I want say something more about my decision to open the group in FB.
>> >>>> There is many people the use the Rietveld method as a magic black box:
>> >>>> insert the data, read the cif of the phase and obtain the results.
>> >>>> Then they say "twenty-one" and "forty-one" when they see a symmetry
>> >>>> group!
>> >>>> Maybe a POP-group in FB can teach more about crystallography to a
>> >>>> larger group of scientist!
>> >>>> this is my opinion.
>> >>>> Davide
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr
>> >>>> [mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On Behalf Of Lubomir Smrcok
>> >>>> Sent: 08 June, 2015 2:49 PM
>> >>>> To: Alan Hewat
>> >>>> Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
>> >>>> Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dear Alan,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There are plenty of people who call usage of so-called social
>> >>>> networks (they are, in fact, very asocial) "a progress". I would
>> >>>> suggest to consider De gustibus non est disputandum, but also Duo
>> >>>> cum faciunt idem, non est idem.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Although I am not member of any of those asocial nets and do not
>> >>>> plan to be, I sometimes think of the end of such services like
>> >>>> Gopher. Maybe we have around a generation, who prefers to share
>> >>>> instead of to search, think & write. What a prefect opportunity for
>> >>>> commercial companies :-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best,
>> >>>> Lubo
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015, Alan Hewat wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> I can understand that people have different ideas about the ideal
>> >>>>> format for discussion, and for some of us email may seem a little
>> >>>>> "old fashioned". I suppose we could also use Twitter or any of the
>> >>>>> other social chattering forums. But multiple groups on the same
>> >>>>> subject disperses the available information, and it would be good
>> >>>>> to have some kind of consensus rather than individual initiatives.
>> >>>>> The advantage of the Rietveld mailing list is that contributions
>> >>>>> aren't anonymous, it is not commercial and no use is made of users'
>> >>>>> information, publicity is limited, and there is a structured
>> >>>>> archive of discussion that is open to all, even those who don't have
>> an account.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I myself simply inherited the list, but think it worth
>> >>>>> maintaining, and would discourage members from posting to multiple
>> >>>>> groups on the same subject.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Alan. (What, me worry ? :-)
>> >>>>>
>>
>> >>>>> On 8 June 2015 at 09:24, davide levy <davide.lev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Good Morning
>> >>>>> I created the Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on Facebook,
>> >>>>> to speak about powder diffraction, Rietveld etc.. open for all
>> >>>>> use powder diffraction.
>> >>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
>> >>>>> Davide
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list
>> >>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg:
>> >>>>> HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive
>> >>>>> is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
>> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics, Grenoble, FRANCE
>> >>>>> <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> +33.476.98.41.68
>> >>>>> http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
>> >>>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> TU Bergakademie Freiberg
>> >>> Dr. R. Kleeberg
>> >>> Mineralogisches Labor
>> >>> Brennhausgasse 14
>> >>> D-09596 Freiberg
>> >>>
>> >>> Tel. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3244
>> >>> Fax. ++49 (0) 3731-39-3129
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>
>> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
>> The Rietveld_L list archive is on
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dr. Leopoldo Suescun
>> Prof. Agr (Assoc. Prof.) de F?sica Tel: (+598) 29290705/29249859
>> Cryssmat-Lab./C?tedra de Fisica/DETEMA Fax: (+598) 29241906*
>> Facultad de Quimica, Universidad de la Republica. Montevideo, Uruguay
>>
>>
>> Ahora la cristalograf?a importa m?s (www.iucr.org) Crystallography Matters
>> more.
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>
>> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
>> The Rietveld_L list archive is on
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
致
礼！
chenhh
chen-...@mail.sic.ac.cn
2015-06-12
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>
Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
