Dear Lia, There are a lot of people reading this list. If Stefano wrote in English and said he felt like an immigrant without language skills, and so did not complain to the police about you, I think it is best to reply to his charges in English.
I think you really need to reply to the information kindly provided below by Vali Nas. How did you arrive at the much higher costs you charged Mr. Corbello? That is the real issue. We are concerned for the image and reputation of Romania and you. We are all listening, Beth Ciesielski ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 23:17:55 +0300 From: Vali Nas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [romania_eu_list] please read carefully, Stefano Cobello Dear Stefano, I must confess it's difficult to write about this, because I personally met Lia during a very brief partnership almost 10 years ago. However, if what you say is true, then I guess this situation should indeed be disseminated on every NGO network and list of discussions and brought to the attention of every organization. I think you should provide the three emails you say you received from Lia as attachments (and not copied and pasted in the body of your message), their headers would show where and when they came from. The prices you say she quoted seem extremely high. For example, accommodation in a single room at "Capela" (which, by the way, is a motel) is not 35 Euros/day, but 22 Euros/day (breakfast included -- and, by the way, breakfast is only 2 Euros, not 6). If arranged through an agency (as Lia said), then the price drops to 20 Euros/day for a single room, and I am sure that further negotiations are possible. You can find all this information on the motel's home page (http://www.alutus-capela.ro/pagini/Capela/tarife.htm), or by clicking on http://www.rohotels.ro/pagina_hotel.php?id_hotel=415. Even if she had contracted a local agency to organize the event, I think Lia still had a responsibility to make sure everything was OK (as she said, "We are responsible from your arrival until your departure"). Also, there are many incorrect figures in the emails you have received. Here are some examples: 1) The prices for lunches, dinners and coffee brakes seem too high. 2) Ramnicu Valcea is only 170 km away from Bucharest (and not 250 km; maybe she told you a longer distance in order to be able to quote a higher price for transportation). 3) You were quoted 118 Euros/person for the round trip Bucharest - Ramnicu Valcea. For a group of 5, this means 590 Euros, which is outrageous (1.75 Euros per km!). The offers for minivans on the car rental market here start from 115 Euros/day with unlimited mileage. For example, you can rent a Mercedes Benz Vito (8 seats) for 124 Euros/day. For 3 days you would have to pay 372 Euros, a lot cheaper than what you were quoted (even if you add 3-days accommodation+meals expenses for a driver). Info on car rental at http://www.eurocars.ro/autonoleggio-romania/bucarest/noleggio_auto_van.php?p lace=1 <http://www.eurocars.ro/autonoleggio-romania/bucarest/noleggio_auto_van.php? place=1&language=italiano> &language=italiano 4) The local travel expenses (32 Euros/km) seem pretty high too (unless you haven't travelled more than 100 km/day) 5) According to the motel's home page, the rent for the conference room is 65 Euros (4 hours) or 120 Euros (8 hours). For a group of 11 persons, and depending on the time required, the price should have been 6 Euros/person or 11 Euros/person (not 18 Euros/person). Dear Stefano, the image you have of Romania is correct, it is a beautiful country with great people. I hope all this is just a misunderstanding and I'm sure that Lia will explain where the truth lies. Best regards, Vali ------------------------------------------- Please consider joining my Yahoo Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RO-maniacs/ _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Polo Europeo della Conoscenza - Verona Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:06 PM To: romania Subject: [romania_eu_list] please read carefully, Stefano Cobello Dear Friends from Romania, My name is Stefano Cobello and I am coordinating a network of schools in Verona Italy. I am writing to you beacuse we had such a disgreasful experience in our last grundtivg 2 meeting in Romania: The responsible of this was a romanian lady , Lia Elena Porfir, representing 2 organisations Phoenix Carita Society - Horezu -Branch ( Horezu town T. Vladimirescu str. B1.R2 - Office Ramnicu Valcea n. Balcescu, str. 28/ap. 217 Valcea Region tel / fax 0040250861945, moble 0040724467833) and the Active Education Centres Network and creative tourism in Romanian Rural area IFS and FONPC member the second adress is: Moldova : Ceahlau, Bicaz and Brosteni - Dobrogea: Costanta - Oltenia: Horzu, Pestisani/ Obita e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here in attachment underneath you will find all the e-mail justifying what i am saying. 1 this persons in order to organise the parnter meeting asked us a contribution of 100 euro each beacuse she did not received any money form the national agency 2. she asked us from Budapest to Valcea 110 euro per person ( we refused it) and we agreed of 300 euro return minubus, but at the enf was a single way and 350 euro. 3. she organzed a stay for us, 11 persons, in a hotel Capela, which was disgusting place, dirty, somoked, and we had a bad dinner at our arrival, unberable food. Rooms and blankets were broken and dirty. 4. she asked us 41 euro per person for the hotel breakfast included, and we have found the the "hotel" price was in reality only 16 euro per person breakfast included. Then she asked us 6 euro per person for the cofeee break, 10 euro for dinner per person and 6 euro for lunch, 5 She also asked us 200 euro for the translator, 3 nice 17 years old students that she was going to pay 8 dolalrds per day, 3 days working, taken from a school, with the head master approval. In the moring we decided to look for another hotel, this one was impossible to bear. Lia told me: You will not find any hotel here, in 10 minutes afterwards were already were in a decent and cheaper hotel. 6. she told us that she was not guilty of it because she gave the task to organise everything to a local agency, that at the end we found didnot exist. 7. at this point we were to upset and decided to exclude the romanian partner form the project group, and seh was coming again asking us money, she also blackmail the young students, because we decided to give to them the 200 euro right away. NOw, i have met a lot of romanian persons and parnters and this is my first time of such an experience. I wanted to go to the police, but i am italian you know. So i ask you to disseminate on the network to every network you know this information in order to evoid that this woman could destroy the image of a marvellous country with extraordinary clever persons. Best regards Stefano Cobello Verona - Italy 1st e-mail by Lia Dear partner, If you like to visit Bucharest it is OK.You change our plan for first day.We know very good our town and our region,but not Bucharest town-Bucharest is not our gardin. We have the possibility"a fenster"in the first day when you arrive in the morning and all the group will arrive in the night in Ramnicu Valcea .If you like,in the first day including the visit Bucharest ,only for you ,please decide . If you agreet that please comunicate me urgently.We will make some arrangement in Bucharest. Lia 2nd e-mail After some time I understand what you talked : You like to visit Bucharest and come to Ramnicu Valcea together all the group .It is OK.The minibus will come to Bucharest to the airport at 19.00 h. I regret so much ,but it is impossible to organise the meeting in Bucharest. Maybe B. will find a solution.Nobody sent us the brief description of institution .In this case it is impossible to organise the massmedia meeting or local authority contact.I dont know who are the partners for who I make some efforts.Please make an small efort and put in email short information about projects about partners,objectives and beneficiares.We need time for translate its.Take with you the broshures and others . The actions for 28 aprilie are free .Sorry for my english. See you in Ramnicu Valcea. Yours, Lia if it is 3rd e-mail Buna dimineata (good morning),from Romania Dear B., Is there any room in the minubus for us? can we book another one? Why don't we think to go together? I still miss some information, who can gove them to me? Please dont be worry. You will be divded in two teams .The morning team ,5 italians people will be wait to airport by our volunteer when they will arrive .A minibus will wait .Be cause they have the departure in the morning too in 01 may ,we will rent a minibus for comback .Every group will have a volunteer to guide and to offer the support . 1. Where re we going exactly , town hotle and so on You will arrive in Ramnicu Valcea town ,from 250 km away Bucharest .It is a old town ,very famous and very nice.Here ,we have two theatres,one philarmonique,three museums,two universitates ,three colllegiums and 7 high schools . Here is the city of romanian chimie too.Here is the place of salt mine ...effect,the place of unic rocs in Europe ...,the unic wood monastery...the caves .you will look with your eyces. 2. Shall we plan to go together there? General plan :every day we will have the theoretical course and in pm we will organise the practical workshops ,focus-group with beneficiaries from here ,visits,short meeting with officially and massmedia ,traditional cultural moments ,surprises -I will send a plan 3. In case of negative answer how can we reach the train or bus station? Does anyone can give us any iformation? I have 4 persons with me asking daily questions. Not exist negativ answer .We are responsible from your arrive until your departure. The price for rent the small minibuses are :300 Euro/Rm.Valcea -Bucharest -comback. For every people who coming in the morning or in the lunch time of 28 april ,the costs have plus the breakfast and lunch :lunch=10 Eu and brakfast = 2 x 3 Eu/day The polish and german people :rent a small car The italian -rent other minicar Program 28 .04.2005 Polish team 28.04.2005 -arrive airport 13.45 h /lunch Bucharest/ vist village museum and comback 19 h to airport for take the german people in the car Italian team 28.04.2005 -arrive airport 09.00 h direct to Ramnicu Valcea -program visits and discussions /lunch and breakfast German people 28.04.2005 -arrive airport 19 h -direct Ramnicu Valcea -dinner 4th. mail <Lia Dear friends, Very good ideas you have ;restricted what I will offer not payed by you .The meniu translated is our surprise.For what that decision ,if you not pay? This socio-cultural moments are our specificity and traditional colour. Be attent to prices for romanian people finded by me and negociated special for you: 1.travel aeroport-Rm.Valcea-aeroport (28 apr- 01.may)118 EU/person 2.intern travel two days- 64 Eu/pers 3.accomodation singl .room 35 Eu/day x 3 days = 105 EU 4.breakfast -6 Eu x 3 =18 Eu /person 5.dinner 7-8 Eu x 3 =21/24 Eu/person 6.lunch 10 Eu x 3 =30 Eu/person (one lunch -packet in time travel to airoport 7.breakcoffe 6 Eu x 3 = 18 Eu/person 8. rent the fleapchart and salle part of day :18,2 Eu/person 9 translation 50 Eu/person /all period 12 mapes,visits,cultural afternoons and workshops organisation in rural area -contribution of Phoenix Carita Aprox. Total cost 445 Eu /person Please correct me if I maked the mistakes. Thank you and good afternoon and wekend . I hope you will like here in a nice romanian region.> All the best. Lia ------------------------ Yahoo! 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