At 22:56 26-10-01, you wrote: >You know what though. It's their site they can do what ever they want with >it. If they choose not to make it browser friendly then they will suffer >with lack of use and loss of users/customers.
Yes and no. First: I don't consider switching from Mozilla to MSIE an upgrade, but an invitation to security breaches. I generally use MSIE for our CMS's since it's the only browser that supports access to the clipboard via ECMA script. Sometimes I wonder off and a week ago I was reminded of my principles when a popup showed up and my virusscanner alerted me about readme.eml. Luckily I don't run Outlook. Secondly: It's the network administrators that get to pay once again: "Yo Harry, I can't access MSN.com and it says I need to upgrade. Can you do that?" Thirdly: It's not an XHTML issue, it's a design issue. Call it what it is. It's not even XHTML compliant and if it we're, than there was no problem at all!!! XHTML is backwards compatible. So the blame goes to browser standards support, while it's simply the design that causes the problems. They're blaming lack of standards support, in other browsers and claiming that their browsers do support standards properly. I agree on the fact that they will probably lose some users - it's the way they gain the unwary users, that's just plain and simple NOT TRUE. Check these two: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webwereld.nl%2Fstyles%2Fmsn.com.css&warning=1&profile=css2 http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webwereld.nl%2Fmsn.com.html&charset=utf-8+%28Unicode%2C+worldwide%29&doctype=Inline&noatt= Henk: It's the Sambar group, but we also like to discuss issues that affect our environment and since it's a group that has a tight audience for a number of years, we also like to discuss plain unrelated stuff. However - we should have marked this thread as off-topic as we usually do. You can set a filter in your browser, if you don't want to read those posts. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Culbertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 4:46 PM >Subject: Re: [sambar] MSN Lockout & Browsers > > > > I found the screen shots interesting but disturbing just one day after >Microsoft introduced Windows XP. > > > > They have been "beefing" because people are not flocking to MSN as they >did to both AOL and "Us (The independents)". Maybe it's because people want >to have choices not absolute adherance to just MS products. I do happen to >use MSIE 6.0 but it's only because I "choose" to do so, not because I "have" >to. > > > > Dave Culbertson > > > > On 26/Oct/2001 21:11:45, Melvyn Sopacua wrote: > > > At 20:26 26-10-01, you wrote: > > > > > > >I suppose all they have to do is turn over their logs... I can access > > > >msn.com with Netscape 4.7 and 6.1 just fine. > > > > > > Maybe you should reverse that user-agent rewrite and try again. > > > > > > > I guess the Netscrape > > > >people won't be happy until nobody wants to use their products anymore > > > >so they can "poor us" themselves all the way to court. > > > > > > That's not it. It's another example of MS pushing MSIE using poor >excuses. > > > 1) It's not XHTML compliant, even though that's the excuse. > > > 2) It blocks browsers based on user-agent strings and tells the unwary >they > > > need to 'upgrade' implying their browser is better. > > > 3) Opera can handle MSN.com just fine!!! > > > > > > I've made changes to the htmldump of the MSN.com homepage of MSN.com > > > to make the stylesheet and external JS sheets available, using: > > > $ wget --user-agent="Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Win >9x > > > 4.90)" -O helppane17.js <A >HREF="http://www.msn.com/js/helppane17.js";>http://www.msn.com/js/helppane17. >js</A> > > > > > > and uploaded it to our site: > > > <A >HREF="http://www.webwereld.nl/msn.com.html";>http://www.webwereld.nl/msn.com. >html</A> > > > > > > Mozilla will render a big hole, where the picture should be and Opera > > > doesn't stack > > > the tables horizontally. Konquerer makes the main story disappear. > > > > > > Additionally I've uploaded some screenshots of the blocked messages, in > > > case you > > > missed them: > > > <A >HREF="http://www.webwereld.nl/msncaps/";>http://www.webwereld.nl/msncaps/</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Dave Culbertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Friday, 26 October, 2001 10:51 > > > >Subject: [sambar] MSN Lockout & Browsers > > > > > > > > > > > > > MSN lockout stirs antitrust rumblings > > > > > By Sandeep Junnarkar and Joe Wilcox > > > > > Staff Writers, CNET News.com > > > > > October 26, 2001, 10:15 a.m. PT > > > > > update As some third-party browsers remain unable to access > > > >Microsoft's popular MSN.com Web site for a second day, the lockout has > > > >stirred up further anti-competitive concerns about the giant software > > > >maker. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > > > >For unsubscription of this list send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >with > > > >email > > > >data containing unsubscribe emailadd sambar > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > > > > > </MELVYN> > > > > > > void wakeup() > > > { > > > for(long int cuppajava;drink();cuppajava++); > > > } > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ > > > For unsubscription of this list send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >with email > > > data containing unsubscribe emailadd sambar > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Dave Culbertson > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Powered by Sambar Webmail - http://www.sambar.com) > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ > > For unsubscription of this list send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with >email > > data containing unsubscribe emailadd sambar > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >For unsubscription of this list send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with >email >data containing unsubscribe emailadd sambar ____________________________________________________ </MELVYN> void wakeup() { for(long int cuppajava;drink();cuppajava++); } -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For unsubscription of this list send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with email data containing unsubscribe emailadd sambar
