Hi Paul,
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Paul Fremantle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chamikara > > I think we are a long way from a feature complete Mercury :-) It does not have to be feature complete to be brought into Apache. But it will have to have the missing features before becoming a replacement for Sandesha2. > I also > think you should be thinking of other criteria than just performance: > code cleanliness, maintainability, community involvement, stability, > production quality, all these and more are criteria on which people > will judge whether this is a better implementation than Sandesha2. +1. But as Jaliya had mentioned architecture & performance should be the No. 1 factor. Thanks, Chamikara > > > Paul > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Chamikara Jayalath > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > As I mentioned earlied, I am really eager to see Mercury being brought > into > > Apache (either as a branch in Sandesha2 or as a seperate WS project). > What I > > really want to see is a comparison between two implementations. If a > feature > > complete Mercury version outperforms Sandesha2 I would be more than happy > to > > accept it as a replacement for Sandsha2. > > > > Thanks, > > Chamikara > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > >> > >> No objection at all, as long as its not castrated .. i.e., it must be ok > >> to release. Is that ok with everyone? > >> > >> Sanjiva. > >> > >> Paul Fremantle wrote: > >>> > >>> Ant > >>> > >>> I completely agree. I think the best outcome is to move the code into > >>> ASF SVN, move the discussion over, and simply treat this as a new and > >>> different codebase from Sandesha, with no implication about how this > >>> pans out in the future. > >>> > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:23 PM, ant elder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Just for the record I'd like to point out I've been talking as a WS > PMC > >>>> member. I've no idea what IBMs views are on this and haven't spoken to > >>>> anyone in IBM about it. Also I'm fine with this code coming into the > >>>> apache > >>>> svn, that would be better than being developed at wso2 imho. I do > think > >>>> for > >>>> now until there's consensus on it there should be no implication yet > >>>> that > >>>> its the "next" version, as outline in the rules for revolutions doc. > >>>> > >>>> ...ant > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana > >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd like to hear what non-IBM Sandesha community members also think > >>>>> about > >>>>> this idea. If the entire community doesn't want this code coming > here, > >>>>> well, > >>>>> then its ABSOLUTELY fine! > >>>>> > >>>>> Life will go on .. and if WSO2 wants to it can certainly contrib it > and > >>>>> start an alternative RM impl in Apache too. Apache does not have a > >>>>> position > >>>>> saying "only one of one thing". > >>>>> > >>>>> Sanjiva. > >>>>> > >>>>> Paul Fremantle wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1. I agree that this code should not be in Apache with a org.wso2 > >>>>>> package namespace. > >>>>>> 2. I don't agree that the timing of this is so bad. There is always > a > >>>>>> balance between starting something completely in the open and > pushing > >>>>>> a finished object onto the community. When Amila started this, it > >>>>>> wasn't a conscious decision to replace Sandesha2 - it was simply an > >>>>>> experiment. Amila got it to the point where the experiment proved > that > >>>>>> this particular approach could work and then brought it to the > >>>>>> community. And I don't think this code is that complete - there is a > >>>>>> lot of work to do on it. To be honest I think there are mixed > >>>>>> messages. On the one hand I'm hearing that its too complete and we > >>>>>> should have engaged the community earlier. On the other hand I'm > >>>>>> hearing that because it doesn't implement 1.1. it still hasn't > proven > >>>>>> it can be a cleaner design that Sandesha2. Frankly I don't think > there > >>>>>> is any perfect answer here. > >>>>>> 3. Apache has a strong history of allowing multiple implementations > of > >>>>>> the same thing and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have two > >>>>>> implementations of RM. Whether or not Mercury is a "replacement" for > >>>>>> Sandesha seems to be something that will only will be decided if the > >>>>>> community wants it to be that way. I think its *way* too early to > tell > >>>>>> at this point if Mercury is going to enthuse the community or not. > So > >>>>>> far it only implements about half of the features of Sandesha2. > >>>>>> 4. I personally think that the right thing to do here is to engage > the > >>>>>> community. I think the right way to do that is to move the code to > >>>>>> org.apache.something, and move the discussions to sandesha-dev with > a > >>>>>> prefix in the subject like [MERCURY]. This is what we have done time > >>>>>> and again. Either it will engage a wider audience in the design and > >>>>>> implementation or it won't, but unless we do this we can't know. > >>>>>> 5. I don't think it really matters whether Sandesha2 has bugs or > not. > >>>>>> The question in my mind is whether this new implementation can be > kept > >>>>>> cleaner, faster, and more maintainable than Sandesha2. If it can be > >>>>>> then it will gain support, and if not it won't. Its as simple as > that. > >>>>>> But I honestly believe in the Apache way, and I don't think it will > >>>>>> end up better without the input of this community, who frankly know > >>>>>> WSRM implementation as well as anyone in the world. > >>>>>> 6. I *COMPLETELY* disagree with Ant's point about announcements. > This > >>>>>> is a module that works with Axis2 and there is absolutely nothing > >>>>>> wrong with announcing it to the Axis2 community with an [ANN] > header. > >>>>>> That would be true if this was a commercial extension to Axis2. But > >>>>>> this is an Apache Licensed open source project. Further, a version > of > >>>>>> this code has been donated to Apache. So unless I have somehow an > >>>>>> utter misunderstanding of Apache's mailing lists I cannot see any > >>>>>> reason at all not to post this announcement. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Paul > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 9:18 AM, ant elder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Glen Daniels > >>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> <snip> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> While that may be true, I'm disappointed that the work moved so > far > >>>>>>>>> forward before being brought to the Sandesha community, and I > would > >>>>>>>>> *really* like to find some navigable path that brings us > eventually > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> single implementation of RM-over-Axis2, in Apache. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Agree with that completely, this seems a really sad thing to have > >>>>>>> happened. > >>>>>>> Is there really no way to get Sandesha working with SecureRM over > >>>>>>> SMTP, > >>>>>>> there didn't seem to be much discussion about what the issues are > >>>>>>> with > >>>>>>> doing > >>>>>>> that? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> While things are as they are I do think things like Mercury > >>>>>>> announcements > >>>>>>> should be kept off the Apache mailing lists, so no more posts like: > >>>>>>> http://apache.markmail.org/message/ounhpi54rx543vqw > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ...ant > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. > >>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; > >>>>> http://www.opensource.lk/ > >>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ > >>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ > >>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. > >> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; > http://www.opensource.lk/ > >> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/ > >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > >> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/ > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Paul Fremantle > Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2 > Apache Synapse PMC Chair > OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair > > blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com >
