What puzzles me is that we talk of Peace when we are ruled by "Political" parties with diverse motives aimed at exploiting various groups of people. Why then the obsession with BJP alone ?
Why the obsession with the "Hindu Right" ? Why not talk about the "Muslim Right" ?
Who planned and executed the Bombay Stock exchange bombing ?
What stunted the industrialization of growth of the Indian economy is the obsession of Indira Gandhi and her insecurity in allowing private industrial houses to have power of the money whereby they could control the political parties.
Why not talk about the ills of the congress party, communist prty et al ? Why only the BJP ?
Any intellectual forum would deliberate on Death, misery and femine caused by lack of Economic progress, more so when India has one of the la
I am equally distressed by the murder of many innocent people of Muslim faith, as equally as I was distressed by the initial killing of people of Hindu faith.
Nilofer, I have great regard for you for participating and promoting in exchange of views and this forum for dialogue. But I don't know why you address attempts of "Hindu Right" to barge in here. It seems like "Muslim Right" has no interest in debatring or joining this group ?
We can't see society as black and white, it isn't!
Md. Ghazni had reasons for invading, and I have reasons to "Resist" the destruction that stands reminiscent.
Can we bring back the Bamian Buddhas ?
BTW, I looked myself in the mirror and it doesn't say "Hindu Right" anywhere ;-()
Ravi
From: "Nilofer Ahsan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Romila Thapar's new book sheds light on Ghazni's Invasion of Somanatha
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:23:05 -0500
I am always amazed and saddened at how much time and energy we spend in South Asia dissecting and re-dissecting the past in order to assign blame and justify violence against each other. I am particularly distressed at the roles that our governments play in fomenting mindless violence and scapegoating. Too many resources are spent building bombs, funding our militaries, resourcing hate groups within our own countries, and saber rattling that could be better spent feeding our poor, educating our young and helping our countries develop. I think governments set the tone and create the climate which can either deter religious violence or help it to flourish. This is why I am particularly critical of government action and political parties that seek to use ethnic and religious violence to their own ends. These problems, unfortunately are endemic to all of South Asia--not only in India and Pakistan, but also in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Tibet. I don't know the right answer in terms of what is the best way to counter the myth making that right wing groups use to bolster their hate mongering. Perhaps there is a corrective in going back into the historical record to create a more accurate understanding as it seems like Romila Thapar is trying to do. Though the debate we're having here seems to indicate how quickly that type of approach can devolve into a pointless back and forth over who wronged who first or most. I think that as South Asians of the Diaspora we have an important role to play in terms of uniformly condemning all religiously and ethnically based violence within the subcontinent--not that which happened in the past, but that that is happening every day right now. We should back that condemnation with political and economic action that reflects this point of view. All of the above is my own PERSONAL point of view.
As someone who has been a very active member of SAPAC for many years and is part of the core planning team I also want to clarify something about the nature of the list-serve. It is intended as an open forum for dialogue. We get several requests a week from individuals wanting to be added to the forum. Awhile ago it came to our attention that some individuals who seemed to be allied with the Hindu right were requesting to be added to the list serve. We discussed what our options were and whether or not we wanted to restrict access to the list and decided in the end not to. Partly that was a logistical decision--it would be impossible for us to vet every request to make sure that the individual truly held the progressive political views that the collective espouses. Yet there is also a philosophical reason. I think it is important to have a forum that allows us to debate these issues--not just with those we agree with, but especially with those we disagree with. Please remember however, that the points of view that are reflected are largely individual--not the point of view of the collective.
If you want to get a sense of SAPAC's political point of view--as opposed to the individual perspectives of the many people who are subscribers--it is best to look at the work that we do. We have sponsored peace floats and actions condemning communal violence in the Independence Day Parade. This year we are planning a Bhangra for Unity event that will hopefully provide an opportunity for Indian and Pakistani young people to celebrate Independence together. We put together a number of educational events around the violence in Gujarat. We are an active member of Bridges for Unity a coalition of Indian Diaspora groups trying to address communalism. We are also hoping to build bridges in the upcoming year with groups addressing similar issues in other parts of South Asia. It's big work, and important and we welcome those who are truly committed to combating hate in South Asia to working with us.
Nilofer
-----Original Message-----
From: Mona Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 12:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Romila Thapar's new book sheds light on Ghazni's Invasion of Somanatha
It is quite disturbing that many thinking individuals who are part of progressive movements like SAPAC are buying into the vicious campaign of the Hindu Right, in both India and the U. S., to smear the reputation of Romila Thapar, a distinguished historian of ancient India, now appointed in a prestigious chair at the Library of Congress, who has courageously insisted on the truth about past events. It is even worse to put Thapar in the same league as the Hindu Right and to claim as Ravi Sharma does that her work is a "fantastic novel" and nothing but "more and more of spewing venom at the supposedly venom spewing Hindu Rightwing!
Let's get facts right before making sweeping statements. Thapar is trying to provide counter evidence to the fantastic and intellectually dishonest history of the Hindu Right that sees Indian history as a constant record of how Hindus were "wronged" by Muslims. This is one-sided nonsense. The "Hindu" king Shivaji's greatest military confidant was a Muslim and they were interested in annexing Hindu as well as Muslim kingdoms. There are tons of such examples. Mosques were desecrated by Hindus and Temples were desecrated by Muslims. Let us not let this debate degenerate into a history of one-upmanship. Thapar is trying to put history in perspective and NOT justifying the Muslim rulers. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect the present day Muslims to condone or take responsibility for what Md. Ghanzni or Babar did. India is a secular democratic country today and to hold Indian Muslims responsible for Babar or Ghazni is a fraud on the Indian Constitution.
Mona Mehta
>From: "Ravi Sharma"
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: Romila Thapar's new book sheds light on Ghazni's Invasion of Somanatha
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:57:54 -0600
>
>
>When most of Romila's works espouse "Knee-jerk" reactions, there's
>certainly something wrong with her or her Work!
>
>Romila certainly hasn't found the Remedy that she is "Painstakingly"
>trying to find. Maybe she is trying to feed "slow poison" which is
>why the "knee-jerk" reaction of trying to trash her work ?
>
>Her intellectualism is biased and suits more as a fantastic Novel
>than academic research.
>
>cheers,
>Ravi
>
>>From: "Rasheed Ahmed"
>>To: "'Mona Mehta'" ,
>>
>>Subject: Romila Thapar's new book sheds light on Ghazni's Invasion
>>of Somanatha
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:25:09 -0600
>>
>>KSB, it was not my summary. I merely forwarded an article on the
>>website
>>of Business Standards written by C.P. Bhambhri. It would be
>>intellectually honest to refrain from knee-jerk reactions and
>>spoon-fed
>>responses developed with an agenda to blur the truth. Do you
>>subscribe
>>to the phenomenon that anyone who has different point of view than
>>Hindutva preachers is neither a Hindu nor an Indian?
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.business-standard.com/today/story.asp?Menu=34&story=34407
>>
>>
>>
>>Ahmed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mona Mehta
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:35 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: RE: Romila Thapar's new book sheds light on Ghazni's
>>Invasion
>>of Somanatha
>>
>>
>>
>>There is no silence KSB. It is precisely knee-jerk reactions like
>>"Double Standard" (as Khelan SB argues) that Romila Thapar is tying
>>to
>>argue against. Thapar is attempting to challenge the "football view
>>of
>>history" propagated by the Hindu Right in which Hindus and Muslims
>>are
>>always pitted against each other and trying to score points. South
>>Asian
>>history is so much more complicated than that and I think it would
>>be a
>>terrible misreading of Thapar's work to see it as a justification
>>of the
>>destruction of Hindu temples by Mhd. Ghazni.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Mona Mehta
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: "Khelan S. B."
>>
>> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> >Subject: RE: Romila Thapar's new book sheds light on Ghazni's
>>Invasion
>>of Somanatha
>>
>> >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:35:17 -0600
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >It seems that Ahmed's summary of Thapar's book justifies the
>>
>> >destruction of Hindu temples by Mhd. Ghizni and the invading
>>Muslims
>>
>> >since 'other Hindus were doing it too.' I would like to echo a
>>bit
>>
>> >of logic every 3rd grader has heard at least once or twice, 'if
>>___
>>
>> >jumped off a bridge would you do it too?'
>>
>> >
>>
>> >What if, in the aftermath of WWII and the Holocaust, the Nazi's
>>
>> >argued that they should be given leniency since 'Stalin killed
>>his
>>
>> >own people too' or 'some Catholics looked the other way while we
>>
>> >were gassing Jews' ??? How DARE anyone even suggest such a
>>thing?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Why the silence now? Where are the voices of objection on this
>>
>> >board?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Two words: Double Standard.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >-KSB
>>
>> >
>>
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
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