Same here. Now it is standard operating procedure. Sigh....
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yeah, i've had problems with this for a while. Something has changed, because
> I remember when i was a young teen, i didn't expect to see young people my
> age in all the roles. Of course it was cool to see some teens in good roles,
> but when I saw spies and soldiers and superheroes and whatnot that were much
> older than me, it seemed right. I usually accepted that with age came
> experience and wisdom. Now it's as if being over 21 makes some--especially
> women--old.
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>> What distresses me is that when I look at movies and TV series in made
>> in the past, even though youthfulness was worshiped, the cast seemed to
>> represent a wider range of ages. Now, more often than not, the hero and
>> the heroine reflect the Beverly Hills 90210 crowd, as you pointed out
>> earlier. Seeing a female over 30 is becoming a rarity. It used to bug
>> me a little how in anime most of the heroines were under 18. Now it
>> seems like Hollywood is headed in that direction. When they do on
>> occasion cast an older male lead, you often have a female leads who are
>> significantly younger. If he is sixty and she is forty, then in their
>> minds, they hired an older woman. Funny thing... the networks and the
>> theaters are hemorrhaging audiences. I wonder if this demographic
>> targeting has anything to do with it. Maybe their target market is
>> pretty much who is going to the theatre and pretty much who are
>> watching. Maybe cable is gaining because that are targeting other and
>> broader groups.
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>> no, you're right, that's why I emphasized it's what *some* of us want, not
>>>
>> all. I agree young (white) guys think Jessica Alba is hot. So in that way,
>> you're right in that Hollywood is connected, but they are disconnected from
>> people like me. But as you say, they don't care about me.
>>
>>> I noticed that even more glaringly in "Transformers", which, frankly, the
>>> more
>>>
>> I think about, the less I like. I pretty much hate most of what Michael Bay
>> does
>> because it's so superficial and calculated. Now, Transformers has the most
>> amazing special effects of the year. The robots look amazing, some fo the
>> fight
>> scenes are off the hook. There's a few funny moments. But i honestly
>> remembered
>> gagging and being bored throughout much of the movie because of the lame
>> plot
>> and acting. And the lead girl is beautiful, no doubt, but so obviously out
>> of
>> place it's funny. That's okay: she's the star. But there's even women in the
>> background who look like models for no reason! There's two women in a car
>> that
>> are shown for about three seconds. Models. One really illogical shot of a
>> woman
>> in distress in the street, staring at the fighting. She's got on a blue,
>> flimsy
>> dress that's flapping in the wind, her hair is perfect, and she is gorgeous.
>> The
>> scene is so incongruous I had to laugh. I kept
>>
>>> thinking "man, aside from the robots, this movie sucks, and Bay's got
>>> nothing
>>>
>> approaching a deft touch". But everyone says how great it was, and when I
>> complained of the poor writing and acting, looked at me like I had a third
>> eye.
>> (To be fair, think I gave it an "A", but only for the FX).
>>
>>> So you're right, Hollywood pleases those it wants to pleases
>>>
>>> -------------- Original message --------------
>>> From: "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
>>>
>>>
>>>> But Keith, to be brutally honest, you have to remember, they don't care
>>>> what you are attracted to. They are after young guys and I don't get
>>>> it. Most young guys don't have as much money or disposable income as
>>>> those older than them. Are you sure young guys are not attracted to
>>>> them. If you read the boards at Internet movie database, you might
>>>> think otherwise. Whether they are attracted to them because Hollywood
>>>> tells them to or because they are genuinely attracted to them, their
>>>> response in polls, surveys and posting ,negate what you say.
>>>> Unfortunately, there is not a disconnect. Hollywood has stopped trying
>>>> to please most of the people most of the time and opted instead to
>>>> please a very small targeted group most of the time. a sad state of
>>>> affairs
>>>>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> i think there's a disconnect and schism between what *some* of us want,
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> what Hollywood thinks we want. For example, i see the likes of Jessica
>>>> Alba,
>>>> Halle Berry, and Jessica Biel thrown about all the time, and usually it's
>>>> frankly just because some people think they're super hot. Yet, despite the
>>>> ridiculous image of females in comics (all with impossibly large breasts
>>>> on
>>>> improbably thin frames with unrealistically long legs) I am much more
>>>>
>> attracted
>>
>>>> to *strong* female superheroes than eye candy. Jean Grey is gorgeous in
>>>> the
>>>> comics, but I like her more for her strength, kindness, and the Phoenix
>>>>
>> Force.
>>
>>>> That's why I'm okay with Famke Jensen as Jean Grey: she has a presence I
>>>>
>> like.
>>
>>>> It's also why I hate Halle Berry as Storm: she's okay looking, but she's
>>>> not
>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> strong screen presence. I don't find Uma Thurman to be exactly gorgeous,
>>>> but
>>>> she's a strong, tough actress, and is perfect for "Kill Bill". It's also
>>>> why
>>>> I seem to be alone in thinking that Angelina Jolie--who can be a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> strong actress--would make a better candidate for a spy franchise
>>>>> starring a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> woman than many other women bandied about. it's not about Jolie's looks,
>>>> but
>>>>
>> her
>>
>>>> acting ability.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Comics and comic-based films are about fun, action, escapism, and just
>>>>> fun
>>>>>
>> at
>>
>>>> times, but they still need to be grounded in some kind of good writing or
>>>> interesting plot. Seeing the likes of Jessica Alba get near nekkid in FF
>>>> just
>>>> isn't interesting to me--certainly not enough to make me want to see the
>>>>
>> flicks
>>
>>>> more than once. there are other sources of media if that's all you want.
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -------------- Original message --------------
>>>>> From: "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Amen. When I read that, I thought it was purely sexuality if true.
>>>>>> Sexuality usually is not enough to carry a comic or action film. She's
>>>>>> purely the eye candy ingredient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i disagree completely. Alba isn't that great an actress, and she's also
>>>>>>>
>> not
>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> compelling screen presence--even as a kick-ass comic book character.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Honestly,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> she's the least memorable character from both movies to my mind. I think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Torch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> and Ben Grimm made more of an impact to both the fun and action of those
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> flicks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> I hear your point, just don't think Alba's the one who demonstrates it.
>>>>>>>
>> More
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uma Thurman in "Kill Bill", or Michelle Yeoh in--anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------- Original message --------------
>>>>>>> From: Daryle
>>>>>>> See, Fantastic Four is a great example. Jessica Alba IS carrying these
>>>>>>> movies, because as we all keep saying...they are horrible movies. And
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is really what should be the point. With the exception of Spider-Man 2
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Batman Begins, these comic properties-turned-movies have been poorly
>>>>>>> written and horribly cast. The fact that they make money is sort of
>>>>>>>
>> besides
>>
>>>>>>> the point, because they have the marketing departments to thank for
>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>> Now we're at a point where actors can read scripts and choose what
>>>>>>> tights
>>>>>>> they wear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the second question, I really don't think this guy said this.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>
>> if
>>
>>>>>>> he DID, he's going to be fired, because there are too many women in
>>>>>>> Hollywood signing checks to come with that nonsense. This is Hollywood,
>>>>>>>
>> not
>>
>>>>>>> the oil industry. The day another "Beaches" script comes to Warners,
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> WILL make the movie. If Nicole Kidman wants to do a shot-by-shot remake
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> "Sybil", she's going to call Madonna and Demi Moore, who will line up
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> funding, and it's going to happen. "Not doing any more movies starring
>>>>>>> women" is just a silly thing to say. The adult industry has no problem
>>>>>>> seeing profits from movies with female leads, so for Warner Brothers to
>>>>>>>
>> not
>>
>>>>>>> be able to means that they probably need, I don't know, a new president
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> production?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/10/07 1:23 AM, "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good example. Love that flick. I'm not all hot for wonder woman, I'm
>>>>>>>> more upset with what they did with Cat-Woman, Ultraviolet, Aeon Flux,
>>>>>>>> Electra. and the fact that because of them the buzz in Hollywood is
>>>>>>>> that women can't carry comics to film or action movies. I could accept
>>>>>>>> that if they even had scripts as bad as fantastic four, but women in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> comic to film area can't even get a half-ass script. Because of the
>>>>>>>> creative issues, women in comic films are likely to be relegated to
>>>>>>>> teams and as side-kicks. For me that is what my gripe is about.
>>>>>>>> Wonder Woman just reminded me of the larger problem. Thank got for
>>>>>>>> Tarantino.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way, what makes you think the guy is going to get fired. He is
>>>>>>>> just speaking the truth and I doubt he is the only one who has said
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daryle wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hate to be the one to remind us of this...but what about ©øKill
>>>>>>>>> Bill©÷? Why
>>>>>>>>> are we acting like JLA/Wonder Woman is saving the female-lead action
>>>>>>>>> movie?
>>>>>>>>> We©öve already been here and passed this hurdle. The challenge now is
>>>>>>>>> to keep
>>>>>>>>> it GOING. Hollywood is over its issue with aggressive women on
>>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>>>
>> The
>>
>>>>>>>>> trick now is getting good looking aggressive women on screen. And
>>>>>>>>> we©öre
>>>>>>>>> starting to see it happen (thank you very much Gina Torres).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IF this guy said this at Warner Brothers, then this one guy will be
>>>>>>>>>
>> fired,
>>
>>>>>>>>> and the world will go on. It looks like JLA has a horrible script and
>>>>>>>>> everybody remembers how wearing the tights derailed Chris
>>>>>>>>> O©öDonnell©ös
>>>>>>>>> career. Locking yourself into a cheesy franchise can really mess you
>>>>>>>>> up for
>>>>>>>>> a while. Hollywood©ös problem is expressing women in 3 dimensions
>>>>>>>>> PERIOD. The
>>>>>>>>> last place you want to be having this discussion is in the context of
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> action movie.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/9/07 3:05 PM, "Martin" > >>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do as well, Tracey. In all honesty, the last good kick-a$$ woman I
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> saw in a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> movie (IMO) was Kathy Long, in a Richard Norton flick from '95
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> called "Under
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Gun". She was more fun to watch than Norton was.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I love a kick-ass broad and always look forward to seeing them come
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> life of film, but I think Hollywood has some issues with them. To
>>>>>>>>>> date,
>>>>>>>>>> I can not think of a hit Kick-ass broad flick in recent years,
>>>>>>>>>> Resident
>>>>>>>>>> Evil being the exception. Cat-Woman, Ultraviolet, Aeon Flux are the
>>>>>>>>>> most recent examples of the crap they are putting out in this
>>>>>>>>>> sub-genre. Star power seem to have no effect on the flimsy plots and
>>>>>>>>>> lack of character development. There are almost unwatchable--- even
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the small screen. It is no surprise that these vehicles flopped. It
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't taken long for the public to get the word out that they are
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> waste of time. So, it comes as no surprise that Robinov is a card
>>>>>>>>>> carrying member and president of the He-Man Wimmen Haterz Club
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Martin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Give it up for Jeff Robinov, president of the He-Man Wimmen
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Haterz Club!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin (finding one more reason to hate H'Wood)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: JLA Plot Confirmed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And could sexism derail a Wonder Woman solo film?
>>>>>>>>>>>> by Stax
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EW, which recently reported that Jessica Biel was no longer in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> running to play Wonder Woman, now claims "Biel is in early talks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to play
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonder Woman in League, but as with (Batman star Bale and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Superman star
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Routh), the studio might be wary of a crossover; one
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> source says
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that her contract is unlikely to guarantee that she'd be the star
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of any
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> future Wonder Woman feature." IGN contacted Biel's reps at CAA
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> today who
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> advised us that she is no longer in talks for JLA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There may be another -- and nastier -- reason why a Wonder Woman
>>>>>>>>>>>> spin-off film might be questionable now. According to
>>>>>>>>>>>> DeadlineHollywoodDaily.com, Warner Bros. president of production
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robinov recently decreed, "We are no longer doing movies with
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> women in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the lead." This is reportedly in response to the lackluster
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> performance
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> of two recent female-driven Warners releases, The Invasion and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Brave
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As Comics2Film.com points out, "such a mandate would spell doom
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> long-in-development Wonder Woman movie. It's inconceivable that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> studio
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> would dismiss the opportunity to make use of one of the few
>>>>>>>>>>>> remaining
>>>>>>>>>>>> iconic superhero characters yet to be adapted for modern
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> movie-goes, but
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> if Robinov's decree is real, then (Warners) may do just that."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>> get organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A
>>>>>>>>>>>> Man
>>>>>>>>>>>> Without A Country"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get
>>>>>>>>>>>> listings, and more!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> will get
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Without A
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Country"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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