RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
Apologies if you get this twice, because I recieved it through 313, but it appears no one else did... -Original Message- From: Dennis Donohue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:29 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video Alex said: look, I'm not starting anything, and this is not a sarcastic question. But, >This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with out even hearing of Kraftwerk. Is this true? just interested to know. -- Dennis: This taken from: http://www.jahsonic.com/DetroitTechno.html "I've always been a music lover," says Juan Atkins. "Everything has a subconscious effect on what I do. In the 1970s I was into Parliament, Funkadelic; as far back as '69 they were making records like Maggot Brain, America Eats Its Young. But if you want the reason why that happened in Detroit, you have to look at a DJ called Electrifying Mojo: he had five hours every night, with no format restrictions. It was on his show that I first heard Kraftwerk." He admits that Mojo was the reason for what happened in Detroit, and attributes that to the fact that he first heard Kraftwerk on that show...
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
On 7/10/03 10:30 AM, "Dave Parsons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did Juan also hear 'Planet Rock'? as this was relased around the same > time as 'Alley's Of Your Mind' on Deep Space... I don't know which one > was first. I believe Planet Rock was 1982, shortly after "Alleys". A better inspiration for "Alleys" can be found in Ultravox's "Mr. X" from 1980. As I hear it, Afrika Bambaataa took inspiration more directly from Kraftwerk, and spawned dozens of imitators, defining the classic electro sound. Pardon the pun, but it's influence may have even cycled back to Kraftwerk for Tour de France. Everyone of a certain age and an interest in dance music heard Planet Rock. It was inescapable in 1982/83. -- im
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
>"Detroit, you have to look at a DJ called Electrifying Mojo: he had five >hours every night, with no format restrictions. It was on his show that I >first heard Kraftwerk." Right, cool. Thanks for that. I was interested because I couldn't believe it! It's just well, I dunno, out of the 'belleville 3' I always felt that Juan's music always sounded most overtly european (out of those 3 anyway). so I was double surprised to hear that he hadn't heard Kraftwerk before he started making music. In fact, I would be extremely surprised to hear that people who were into music around that time in the US HADN'T heard Kraftwerk. Especially Trans Europe Express and what the heads in NYC were doing with it. So, I say coughcoughBULLS**Tcough to that statement. erm, I think anyway. _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
I think this was eloquently answered by JT just now Alex - something about their influence seeping into the collective unconcious (those latter two are my words, but I think - *think*) that's what JT meant. So we all have no need to exhume any argument about who did what first! ;-) Indeed - a laundry list could easily be provided of bands who milked what Kraftwerk did. Keep in mind when Autobahn was released. Even if you fast-fwd MANY years after that to the booty dance (Channel 62 anyone? The New Dance Show, e.g.) television shows in Detroit which often played what seemed like endless variations of "Numbers", etc. or Mojo himself. New Wave (I hate that term!) was undeniably a big influence on many techno innovators and certainly Kraftwerk loomed large in that musical closet. Bowie, Eno, Byrne, etc. - who all went on to shape the more traditional rock/pop gardens. jeff
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
Alex Bond: >look, I'm not starting anything, and this is not a sarcastic question. But, > >>This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with out even hearing >of Kraftwerk. > >Is this true? I think this was eloquently answered by JT just now Alex - something about their influence seeping into the collective unconcious (those latter two are my words, but I think - *think*) that's what JT meant. So we all have no need to exhume any argument about who did what first! ;-) k >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:23 PM >To: 313@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video > > >just interested to know. > >Thanks. > >Alex >_ > >- End of message text > >This e-mail is sent by the above named in their >individual, non-business capacity and is not on >behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. > >PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming >e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and >telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you >give your consent to such monitoring > > > >
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
Did Juan also hear 'Planet Rock'? as this was relased around the same time as 'Alley's Of Your Mind' on Deep Space... I don't know which one was first. -Original Message- From: Brendan Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 July 2003 15:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 10 July 2003 15:23 > > look, I'm not starting anything, and this is not a sarcastic > question. But, > > >This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with > out even hearing > of Kraftwerk. > > Is this true? > > just interested to know. I was wondering the same thing. But as jeff pointed out, even if this was actually true, I'd find it *very* doubtful that the influence of Kraftwerk would not have invaded Juan's consciousness in *some* way or another - he must have heard music by other people who had heard Kraftwerk, for example... Brendan
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
look, I'm not starting anything, and this is not a sarcastic question. But, >This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with out even hearing of Kraftwerk. Is this true? just interested to know. -- This taken from: http://www.jahsonic.com/DetroitTechno.html "I've always been a music lover," says Juan Atkins. "Everything has a subconscious effect on what I do. In the 1970s I was into Parliament, Funkadelic; as far back as '69 they were making records like Maggot Brain, America Eats Its Young. But if you want the reason why that happened in Detroit, you have to look at a DJ called Electrifying Mojo: he had five hours every night, with no format restrictions. It was on his show that I first heard Kraftwerk." He admits that Mojo was the reason for what happened in Detroit, and attributes that to the fact that he first heard Kraftwerk on that show...
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 10 July 2003 15:23 > > look, I'm not starting anything, and this is not a sarcastic > question. But, > > >This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with > out even hearing > of Kraftwerk. > > Is this true? > > just interested to know. I was wondering the same thing. But as jeff pointed out, even if this was actually true, I'd find it *very* doubtful that the influence of Kraftwerk would not have invaded Juan's consciousness in *some* way or another - he must have heard music by other people who had heard Kraftwerk, for example... Brendan
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
look, I'm not starting anything, and this is not a sarcastic question. But, >This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with out even hearing of Kraftwerk. Is this true? just interested to know. Thanks. Alex _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
I just made my point with the man machine concept, which is a conventional way of interpreting technology at the time. Their music was not unconventional and abstract like say a Mortin Subotnick. I don't know your age or which particular era of Kraftwerk you're referencing (there is pre-Autobahn material), but just because it wasn't like Subotnick doesn't mean it wasn't unconventional. I was there. It was INDEED unconventional. There were but a very few bands which had any notoriety doing more than dabbling with electronic stuff back then - like Tangerine Dream and Nektar (remember them?) and NOBODY was doing what Kraftwerk was doing, which was quite unconventional whether you were taking the pulse of electronic music, rock music or pop music of the day. I would go as far as saying that there probably wouldn't be a 313 list (or it would have a different shape if there were one) had there been no Kraftwerk. We can speculate endlessly about what might or might not have happened in terms of someone else coming up with their sound - but nobody did and THEY accomplished it. And just because Juan wasn't into Kraftwerk (?) doesn't mean their influence (which is too large to gauge, really) hadn't seeped into the landscape sufficiently to be highly influential. Being my age, I can safely say that their influence is incredible. jeff
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
I have been considering the matter further, and have managed to frown my way to a second conclusion: that the premise of all music is "look, I can make various melodic and rhythmic sounds with either my voice or with certain physical objects". From that we can deduce that music isn't really all that original. > -Original Message- > From: robin pinning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 10 July 2003 15:07 > To: Brendan Nelson > Cc: spw; 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video > > > > rock is just the sound of electrified strings, plucked, and > acoustic drums > > hmmm i know i shouldn't rise to it but i can't help meself > > robin... > > > > So today's revelation, broadly speaking, is that electronic music is > > made with electronic equipment? > > > > You know, 313 isn't just informative and entertaining - it's > > *educational* too! > > > > > -Original Message----- > > > From: spw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: 10 July 2003 15:00 > > > To: 313@hyperreal.org > > > Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video > > > > > > > > > make that + synthesizers. > > > That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I > > > can make futuristic sci-fi sounding > > > music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and > > > electronic sounding on synthesizer which does > > > a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" > > > > > > --- spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines > > > = synthesizers. > >
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
rock is just the sound of electrified strings, plucked, and acoustic drums hmmm i know i shouldn't rise to it but i can't help meself robin... > So today's revelation, broadly speaking, is that electronic music is > made with electronic equipment? > > You know, 313 isn't just informative and entertaining - it's > *educational* too! > > > -Original Message- > > From: spw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 10 July 2003 15:00 > > To: 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video > > > > > > make that + synthesizers. > > That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I > > can make futuristic sci-fi sounding > > music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and > > electronic sounding on synthesizer which does > > a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" > > > > --- spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines > > = synthesizers.
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
--- Bleep43 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "I don't see their music as being really that > original?" > > er. so who else sounds like them then? And who did they copy? Or is > this another classic spw wind-up? > > I can see what you are saying about them being around at the same time as > electronic music and equipment began to make up a head of steam as it were, > but to say that they were'nt original is way off the mark. I just made my point with the man machine concept, which is a conventional way of interpreting technology at the time. Their music was not unconventional and abstract like say a Mortin Subotnick. This is why Juan Atkins came up with a similar sound with out even hearing of Kraftwerk. =
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
> That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I can make futuristic sci-fi sounding > music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and electronic sounding on synthesizer which does > a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" now, thats what i call CLASSIC ;) fab
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
Just because Kraftwerk came out with music using the same instruments, does not mean that it _sounded_ the same. If all music created with like instruments sounded exactly the same, than Jimi Hendrix should have never even picked up a guitar... Spw, you have good "devil's advocates" thoughts and comparisons (and that type of thinking is usually condusive to broader horizons), but you really do put your foot in your mouth alot... Dennis -Original Message- From: spw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:00 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video make that + synthesizers. That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I can make futuristic sci-fi sounding music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and electronic sounding on synthesizer which does a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" --- spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines = synthesizers. =
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
A stunning observation! -Original Message- From: spw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:00 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video make that + synthesizers. That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I can make futuristic sci-fi sounding music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and electronic sounding on synthesizer which does a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" --- spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines = synthesizers. = # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. #
RE: (313) Tour de France 03 video
So today's revelation, broadly speaking, is that electronic music is made with electronic equipment? You know, 313 isn't just informative and entertaining - it's *educational* too! > -Original Message- > From: spw [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 10 July 2003 15:00 > To: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video > > > make that + synthesizers. > That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I > can make futuristic sci-fi sounding > music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and > electronic sounding on synthesizer which does > a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" > > --- spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines > = synthesizers. > > > > = > >
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
make that + synthesizers. That's the premise of all electro and techno music: "look I can make futuristic sci-fi sounding music with this mechanical sounding drum machine and electronic sounding on synthesizer which does a poor job imitating acoustic sounds" --- spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines = synthesizers. =
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
"I don't see their music as being really that original?" er. so who else sounds like them then? And who did they copy? Or is this another classic spw wind-up? I can see what you are saying about them being around at the same time as electronic music and equipment began to make up a head of steam as it were, but to say that they were'nt original is way off the mark. - Original Message - From: "spw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video > the main flaw in your reasoning which is a bit idol worshiping in my opinion is why didn't we hear > more of that sound when they played live in the late 80's, early 90's, or eve mid 90's? > They are obviously influenced by todays dance trends, I don't see their music as being really that > original, they were pioneers in a natural evolution of electronic music 30 years ago, when drum > machines started to make the scene it wasn't hard to make very similar sounding music. > The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines = synthesizers. > > --- MM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i will agree with the fact that the "basic channel sound has been imitated by many...but at > > the > > same time i have a hard time believing that kraftwerk is trying to sound like anyonethey are > > kraftwerkthey don't need to try to sound like anythingthey are who they are and their > > sounds > > are there ownlets not forget its easy to judge them now 20 years later knowing what we all > > know > > about soundbut it was kraftwerk along with others who taught us about alot of those sounds > > we > > judge, and listen too...i just think its hard to compare any of kraftwerks new music with > > new > > music todaycause kraftwerk is thinking far beyond most people making music today.i mean > > it > > seems like electronic music has just caught up recently with where kraftwerk was 20 years > > ago but none of this means they are not past there prime...i guess we will have too > > see. > > > > my 2 cents.. > > > > michael > > www.renegaderhythms.com > > > > > = > >
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
the main flaw in your reasoning which is a bit idol worshiping in my opinion is why didn't we hear more of that sound when they played live in the late 80's, early 90's, or eve mid 90's? They are obviously influenced by todays dance trends, I don't see their music as being really that original, they were pioneers in a natural evolution of electronic music 30 years ago, when drum machines started to make the scene it wasn't hard to make very similar sounding music. The man machine concept = mechanical sounding drum machines = synthesizers. --- MM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i will agree with the fact that the "basic channel sound has been imitated by > many...but at > the > same time i have a hard time believing that kraftwerk is trying to sound like > anyonethey are > kraftwerkthey don't need to try to sound like anythingthey are who > they are and their > sounds > are there ownlets not forget its easy to judge them now 20 years later > knowing what we all > know > about soundbut it was kraftwerk along with others who taught us about > alot of those sounds > we > judge, and listen too...i just think its hard to compare any of > kraftwerks new music with > new > music todaycause kraftwerk is thinking far beyond most people making > music today.i mean > it > seems like electronic music has just caught up recently with where > kraftwerk was 20 years > ago but none of this means they are not past there prime...i guess we > will have too > see. > > my 2 cents.. > > michael > www.renegaderhythms.com =
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
spw> >well even the video is a bit lame, you think? I think its a pretty cool vid. I'd rather watch this that a lot of the trash you get on MTV? I liked it, got a little buzz from the first time watching it. >lets face it Kraftwerk are past their prime I feel safe saying >this even before their new albums comes out. Bloody hell Sherlock. They're what, 55? and a pop group. I think most people not hurting for rent making music tend to get past their prime after 30 or so years in the business? Can you blame them - have they not made their contribution to history? It's fun - why not try and take a little enjoyment out of it? It's nice to hear this across the airwaves instead of S-club 7 is it not? >At least they have descent taste in newer dance music and haven't tried to go the mainstream dance >rout with genres like trance. Its bloody pop music. They have a large deal with a large company and have been a mainstream pop artist for quite a while. I don't see whats wrong with that? _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
well even the video is a bit lame, lets face it Kraftwerk are past their prime I feel safe saying this even before their new albums comes out. At least they have descent taste in newer dance music and haven't tried to go the mainstream dance rout with genres like trance. My complaint isn't with Basic Channel it's just that sound has been imitated so many times with tech-house. --- MM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yea sure...thats all they are trying to do is sound like basic channelonce > again you have made me laugh > > michael > www.renegaderhythms.com > > > > spw wrote: > > > Their trying to sound like Basic Channel how disappointing. > > That sound is almost becoming a bad cliche. > > > > --- Hans Veneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > The video of Kraftwerk's Tour de France 03 is no online at kraftwerk.com: > > > > > > http://www.kraftwerk.com/video/TDF03_real.html > > > > > > Enjoy, > > > Hans > > > > > > -- > > > Hans Veneman > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://technotourist.org > > > > = > =
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
yea sure...thats all they are trying to do is sound like basic channelonce again you have made me laugh michael www.renegaderhythms.com spw wrote: > Their trying to sound like Basic Channel how disappointing. > That sound is almost becoming a bad cliche. > > --- Hans Veneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The video of Kraftwerk's Tour de France 03 is no online at kraftwerk.com: > > > > http://www.kraftwerk.com/video/TDF03_real.html > > > > Enjoy, > > Hans > > > > -- > > Hans Veneman > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://technotourist.org > > =
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
When they played live in Paris last year, they produced music which seemed somehow to absorb many different elements of electronic music from the past 20 years, including Basic Channel's trademark incessant repetitive dub AND Jeff Mill's intricate string-laden Axis soundscapes without being swamped by either- a pretty incredible feat I thought Jason Brunton On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 12:24 am, Data General wrote: 1) i saw the real tour de france the other day 2) kraftwerk, i think, inhabit cliches quite well. 3) kraftwerk doing basic channel seems very intriguing, innovative or not. ben On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, spw wrote: Their trying to sound like Basic Channel how disappointing. That sound is almost becoming a bad cliche. --- Hans Veneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, The video of Kraftwerk's Tour de France 03 is no online at kraftwerk.com: http://www.kraftwerk.com/video/TDF03_real.html Enjoy, Hans -- Hans Veneman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://technotourist.org =
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
1) i saw the real tour de france the other day 2) kraftwerk, i think, inhabit cliches quite well. 3) kraftwerk doing basic channel seems very intriguing, innovative or not. ben On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, spw wrote: > Their trying to sound like Basic Channel how disappointing. > That sound is almost becoming a bad cliche. > > --- Hans Veneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The video of Kraftwerk's Tour de France 03 is no online at kraftwerk.com: > > > > http://www.kraftwerk.com/video/TDF03_real.html > > > > Enjoy, > > Hans > > > > -- > > Hans Veneman > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://technotourist.org > > > = > >
Re: (313) Tour de France 03 video
Their trying to sound like Basic Channel how disappointing. That sound is almost becoming a bad cliche. --- Hans Veneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > The video of Kraftwerk's Tour de France 03 is no online at kraftwerk.com: > > http://www.kraftwerk.com/video/TDF03_real.html > > Enjoy, > Hans > > -- > Hans Veneman > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://technotourist.org =
